E85 questions

[inglimer]

Considering this on my 06, which is procharged with 9#s, 39 # injectors and an SLP catback exhaust. Makes 420 whp on a Lund dyno tune. It has GT500 fuel pumps.
What would be necessary beyond larger injectors, a smaller pulley and retune?
Is 500whp reasonable here given stock internals and a 24000 mile car?
Thanks

 

[weather man]

You could make the power, problematic on how long the rods survive. Some guys have lived there for a long time.

 

[46addict]

You won't need E85 or the extra fuel hardware to make 500 wheel. Just a pulley swap and retune is all that's needed, but as said before your rods are the weak link if they aren't addressed.

Out of curiosity what size pulley are you running? Are you using stock exhaust manifolds?

 

[2003cobra22]

You could just get a new tune with the e85, on an FI car the added timing and cooler burning effect of e85 could get you 30+rwhp . You run about 30% more fuel with e85 39# injectors might be close to being maxed out.

 

[inglimer]

I was thinking the internals might be safer on E85?

 

[weather man]

I was thinking the internals might be safer on E85?

Pump gas and detonation are to be avoided at all costs when pushing stock 3V rods, so yes, E85 all the way.

 

[2003cobra22]

Pump gas and detonation are to be avoided at all costs when pushing stock 3V rods, so yes, E85 all the way.

Detention prevention is reason enough to run it

 

[RocketcarX]

Those injectors are too small to be pushing for 500 wheel. Not enough head room

 

[sdleo29]

Change pulley and retune, you can get to 500 with 39lb injectors on pump gas, but that's about it. That will be max on the injectors. I ran out of injector at about 503 with 39's on a stingy mustang dyno... To put it in perspective, a terminator with a 2.9 Whipple made 590 right after me.

My car has been running strong for 5k miles and I mash the shit out of it every chance I get. A great tuner goes a long way. E85 would be safer as others have said, but you better stay on top of oil changes etc.

 

[46addict]

He said Lund tune so he has the "safe and reliable" part covered. If something breaks it will be due to part fatigue, not a tuning error.

 

[06redgt]

I agree you can get to 500 on pump gas with a Procharger...I did it on the stock pulley with supporting mods. Since it looks like either way you need to upgrade injectors might as well go big and tune for E85.

Knowing what I know now I would have set up the Procharger with E85 from the beginning. Detonation is the enemy of the stock 3V rod.

 

[inglimer]

So, retune and E85. Are those GT 500 fuel pumps adequate for E85?
Thanks for the direction here, I was floundering a little bit.

 

[sdleo29]

I will be running GT500 pumps with a BAP along with ID1000's on E85 ... talk to JeremyH he is the fuel guru on here , but yes is the short answer

 

[Rasmus]

As mentioned, detonation will kill a 3V rod. E85 will help keep things running cooler.

That said, these rods are weak enough to break at a mid-400s power level and higher rpm. Sure, some folks have been around 500rwhp on a stock shortblock for a long time, and the car is still running. On the other hand, you have people popping motors at lower power levels.

If you ask me, it's not worth the potential headache. Just take the stock block out, and have it built while you still have a block that hasn't windowed. It's not that easy to find these aluminum blocks anymore.

 

[BruceH]

So, retune and E85. Are those GT 500 fuel pumps adequate for E85?
Thanks for the direction here, I was floundering a little bit.

I was able to make 699rwhp with GT500 pumps, a single 40 amp bap, and 970cc Bosh injectors with E85.

The pumps were just about maxed but it all worked. I also was using an 8 gauge power wire and all stock fuel lines.

This was with a D1 Procharger and built 4.6 motor with 11:1 compression, stock crank, FRPP heads, 127400 cams, and stock cats.

I'm of the opinion that E85 is awesome. I saw around 18% more fuel consumption during normal in town driving, less at highway speeds.

The 30% figure is basing the fuel use on btus. There is much more going on when it comes to internal combustion than btu. It makes the whole discussion null and void if only comparing British Thermal Units.

More cylinder compression means more energy from ethanol. Unfortunately a motor made with the proper compression for ethanol (14.5:1) won't survive on pump gas so it's rarely done. Most of our comparisons come from people running motors built to survive gasoline. Ethanol will run in these motors but it won't be at it's best.

This is why ethanol shines with forced induction. Increased cylinder pressure means more energy from ethanol. It's a very safe fuel. Detonation isn't going to happen.

Like everyone else said the rods will probably be the weak link.

 

[inglimer]

Always gets back to the wimpy rods and pistons on the 3v. Guess I should save my $ and do the forged internals and then go for the bigger HP.

 

[inglimer]

In response to​ an earlier reply, the pulley is 4.25" dia.

 

[Marble]

I was able to make 699rwhp with GT500 pumps, a single 40 amp bap, and 970cc Bosh injectors with E85.

The pumps were just about maxed but it all worked. I also was using an 8 gauge power wire and all stock fuel lines.

This was with a D1 Procharger and built 4.6 motor with 11:1 compression, stock crank, FRPP heads, 127400 cams, and stock cats.

I'm of the opinion that E85 is awesome. I saw around 18% more fuel consumption during normal in town driving, less at highway speeds.

The 30% figure is basing the fuel use on btus. There is much more going on when it comes to internal combustion than btu. It makes the whole discussion null and void if only comparing British Thermal Units.

More cylinder compression means more energy from ethanol. Unfortunately a motor made with the proper compression for ethanol (14.5:1) won't survive on pump gas so it's rarely done. Most of our comparisons come from people running motors built to survive gasoline. Ethanol will run in these motors but it won't be at it's best.

This is why ethanol shines with forced induction. Increased cylinder pressure means more energy from ethanol. It's a very safe fuel. Detonation isn't going to happen.

Like everyone else said the rods will probably be the weak link.

So with this in mind, I'm getting ready to have another short block built, switching to single turbo. Car will be run on E85 only and I'll keep a barrel in my garage to keep it going. I think I'm gonna have L and M build the motor and run a fuel cell in the trunk. What kind of compression am I looking at going to E85 only?

I know it's just talk right now because I'll probably go with what L and M recommends because of their experience, but I'm curious as to your thoughts.

 

[46addict]

So with this in mind, I'm getting ready to have another short block built, switching to single turbo. Car will be run on E85 only and I'll keep a barrel in my garage to keep it going. I think I'm gonna have L and M build the motor and run a fuel cell in the trunk. What kind of compression am I looking at going to E85 only?

This would depend on target boost level, as with all fuels. There's an example of a cylinder cracking (among other signs of stress fatigue) at 20psi and 10.5 compression. Cause of failure is unknown but the engine could have survived with less boost.

 

[702GT]

I run a walbro 405, 60# injectors, and a 4.00" pulley waste-gated to 7psi. Makes 420whp on 91 and 465whp on e85. The WG starts bleeding off steam around 4200rpm, not sure how much boost it would make un-checked. I could have bumped it up with a manual boost controller, but I decided not to install it, as I was happy with the power at 7psi. The stock cams really show their ugly teeth in power gains though. With boost flat-lined at 7psi, horsepower runs flat after 5400rpm. Doesn't make less, just runs flat out. Not something you see on a dynograph often, outside a PD torque curve.

E85 is great stuff, just make sure any standard rubber fuel lines are replaced with e85 rated lines. E85 is going to clean the shit out of your fuel system. Any petrol bases will be moving down stream.