Eibach Multi Pro R2

[modernbeat]

Well then we're really having semantic issues here because I would not call those helper springs. Your picture really doesn't help in this discussion. Both those springs being as heavy as they are act at the same time at slightly different rates ending up some kind of proportional in between. Tender springs do that too but because they are so much lighter than the main springs their spring rate is inconsequential. Helper springs are springs that act at the same time like coil overs mounted on a car with leaf springs or air bags in coil springs for heavy loads. I also see you used the terms "helper" spring and "tender" spring to describe the same thing a spring so soft it does little more than act as a spacer since it completely collapses when the car is on the ground. Also in your example the short springs are on the bottom which makes more sense since it provides a more stable setup for the spring to collapse.

I did not describe Tenders and Helpers as the same thing. And I did not call the springs in that pictures either Tenders or Helpers. I called it what it is, a dual spring setup.

 

[Hvacmike]

Which part of the spring is wrong? The length or the rate


OE rate: 22 N/mm (125 lbs/in)
Multi-Pro-R2 Main spring rate: 39 N/mm (225 lbs/in)
Optional main spring rates available from 26 N/mm (150 lbs/in) to 211 N/mm (1200 lbs/in).
Helper spring: Included
Bump-stop: New Eibach bump-stop
Damper: Stainless steel mono-tube with 46mm damping piston.
Adjustments:
-Ride Height adjustable. Lowering from 0 to 2.3 inch -Double adjustable rebound and compression damping -7 points of rebound adjustments
-10 points of compression adjustments
Wheel alignment can be adjusted to OE specifications with Multi-Pro-R2 installed.
Approximate installation time: 2.5 hr
REAR:
OE rate: 27 N/mm (154 lbs/in)
Multi-Pro-R2 Main spring rate: 44 N/mm (250 lbs/in)
Optional main spring rates available from 26 N/mm (150 lbs/in)
to 211 N/mm (1200 lbs/in)
Helper spring: Included
Bump-stop: New Eibach bump-stop
Dust-boot: New Eibach dust-boot
Damper: Powder coated steel mono-tube with 46mm damping piston.
Adjustments:
-Ride Height adjustable. Lowering from 0 to 2.7 inch -Double adjustable rebound and compression damping -10 points of rebound adjustments
-10 points of compression adjustments
Installation of adjustable pan-hard bar, part number 5.72345K is recommended for alignment with Multi-Pro-R2 kit.
Approximate installation time: 2.0 hr

My guess would be Eibach was trying to keep a 25 lbs/in or close, difference between the front and rear just like it lists the OE spring rate. This tells me Eibach people don't know crap about what they are sending out. Maybe if they did a little internet surfing they could have come up with a better spring rates.

 

[steve13gt]

I am talking to Eibach now, to summarize my last email from them.

In 2011 the Rates were lowered because the overall weight of the car was decreased. A majority of the weight was dropped in the front end and so the rates were changed to accommodate that. Being that this is a double adjustable coilover and is used in many different forms of motorsports, We valve these to accept spring rate increases of several hundred pounds. Each car, environment and driver preference will ultimately have a say so in the spring rates that will benefit you the most.

The rates that we offer are a good “Baseline” for tuning the suspension to your personal liking. The softer rates are also a good way to get a feel for how each click of compression and rebound affect the cars handling.
Learning how these click affect the ride is a good way to help decide what rates might work best for you.

I have been speaking with both Brent and our R&D manager to look further into the trouble that you have been having. We currently have dozens of these kits out on the market all with great success. We are even looking to building another set for our in-house mustang (currently using the Multi-Pro R1) So that we can try to replicate the issues that you have been having and help to better diagnose the problem.


We offer them from 150lbs to 1025lbs

Basically from this, they will send me new springs at the rate I want to try.. Now I need to make sure that the older spring rates are right, for me.

 

[HellsBells]

Should've gone with the best I vote sell them and move on. What a headache!

 

[steve13gt]

I ordered kw v3s originally. The guy on eBay scammed me. Then I bought these instead

 

[modernbeat]

Should've gone with the best I vote sell them and move on. What a headache!

And what would the "best" be?

Oh, there it is!

Seriously. Best is different for each application. Although some components will never be "best" based on where they stack up against competitive components.

 

[HellsBells]

And what would the "best" be?

Oh, there it is!

Seriously. Best is different for each application. Although some components will never be "best" based on where they stack up against competitive components.

Everyone knows KW V3's with MM camber/caster plate is best for everything.

 

[908ssp]

My guess would be Eibach was trying to keep a 25 lbs/in or close, difference between the front and rear just like it lists the OE spring rate. This tells me Eibach people don't know crap about what they are sending out. Maybe if they did a little internet surfing they could have come up with a better spring rates.

I agree they are all mixed up. It is like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Pity because the shocks aren't bad. I have measured the springs rates myself and the heavier spring is on the front and the rates they quote are too soft.

 

[steve13gt]

They will send me new springs, I just need to know what to ask for, because even though the older kit 35101.713 used 350lbs in the front, it also used a progressive tender spring. So 300 with just a helper might be too high causing oversteer edit.. UNDERsteer.


In 2011 the Rates were lowered because the overall weight of the car was decreased. A majority of the weight was dropped in the front end and so the rates were changed to accommodate that. Being that this is a double adjustable coilover and is used in many different forms of motorsports, We valve these to accept spring rate increases of several hundred pounds. Each car, environment and driver preference will ultimately have a say so in the spring rates that will benefit you the most.

The rates that we offer are a good “Baseline” for tuning the suspension to your personal liking. The softer rates are also a good way to get a feel for how each click of compression and rebound affect the cars handling.
Learning how these click affect the ride is a good way to help decide what rates might work best for you.

I have been speaking with both Brent and our R&D manager to look further into the trouble that you have been having. We currently have dozens of these kits out on the market all with great success. We are even looking to building another set for our in-house mustang (currently using the Multi-Pro R1) So that we can try to replicate the issues that you have been having and help to better diagnose the problem.


We offer them from 150lbs to 1025lbs

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Application? Track-rat? Frequent tracking? Once-in-a-blue-moon? Pure street? WARNING: dual-purpose means compromise, and usually one that will piss you off, long-term... Choose carefully.

 

[steve13gt]

My car sees mostly highway, with lets say, monthly track visits that are not very competitive. Mostly will be at open lapping.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Then I would be looking at something on the order of 225 in the front, and around 175 in the rear... Softer for more cush on the highway.

 

[steve13gt]

I am already 225 front 250 rear. I don't really have a complaint about ride quality. Would you suggest maybe instead I put the 250 in front and 225 in the rear?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Everyone knows KW V3's with MM camber/caster plate is best for everything.

I don't care how good KW's may be I would never give them a dollar of my money. It is their company policy not to sell spare parts, fluid or provide spec cards for their dampers. This basically makes it impossible to work on them, rebuild them or re-valve them yourself. Which is complete crap.

 

[Department Of Boost]

And what would the "best" be?

Oh, there it is!

And how much does the best cost?

 

[Department Of Boost]

I've set up coilovers and struts with helpers, tenders, dual springs and even triple springs. It all depends on the application.

Have you set up roadrace/track day or street setups with helper, dual spring or triple spring setups?

I'm defining "helper" springs as springs that are not 100% collapsed when the weight of the car is on them (test height/ride height).

I define "tender" springs as ones that are collapsed 100% collapsed when the weight of the car is on them (test height/ride height).

 

[steve13gt]

^ that would make sense, to me to

but its the other way around. Tender springs have useable spring rate, where helpers have nearly none

 

[HellsBells]

I don't care how good KW's may be I would never give them a dollar of my money. It is their company policy not to sell spare parts, fluid or provide spec cards for their dampers. This basically makes it impossible to work on them, rebuild them or re-valve them yourself. Which is complete crap.

If you need a custom spec coilover, they can make them for you to your specs. For their Variant 1, 2, 3--which are for street use--I don't think you can go wrong.

Why buy the spare parts when they will revalve everything for free (other than your side of the shipping)?

Either way, getting off-topic here. Good luck with those coilovers OP! In my experience, the people at Eibach are usually helpful--but that was in person and not over the phone.

 

[Department Of Boost]

If you need a custom spec coilover, they can make them for you to your specs. For their Variant 1, 2, 3--which are for street use--I don't think you can go wrong.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the dampers.

Why buy the spare parts when they will revalve everything for free (other than your side of the shipping)?

You have to pack them up (which is a PITA), wait for them to ship both directions, pay for shipping and most importantly how do you know they did them right? In my EXTENSIVE experience the techs (the ones doing rebuilds/repairs) you find working at most suspension manufactures are not very skilled. The skilled techs go to R&D, the race track or strike out on their own.

And what happens when you are at the track and pop a seal? Load up, go home, pull the damper, pack it up, wait for shipping, wait for them to fix it, wait for it to ship back, unpack it..........On the other hand I could replace the seal at the track and maybe miss one session if I had the parts, etc. with me.

And they do not re-valve/repair for free. I was just quoted $140/damper for a rebuild on a set I was helping someone with (I was calling for parts, not a rebuild quote).

 

[HellsBells]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the dampers.


You have to pack them up (which is a PITA), wait for them to ship both directions, pay for shipping and most importantly how do you know they did them right? In my EXTENSIVE experience the techs (the ones doing rebuilds/repairs) you find working at most suspension manufactures are not very skilled. The skilled techs go to R&D, the race track or strike out on their own.

And what happens when you are at the track and pop a seal? Load up, go home, pull the damper, pack it up, wait for shipping, wait for them to fix it, wait for it to ship back, unpack it..........On the other hand I could replace the seal at the track and maybe miss one session if I had the parts, etc. with me.

And they do not re-valve/repair for free. I was just quoted $140/damper for a rebuild on a set I was helping someone with (I was calling for parts, not a rebuild quote).

They've always rebuilt them for free for me and a couple guys I know--maybe they changed their policy in the last year?

I hear you on the downtime, that is stupid. That's one of the biggest reasons I recommend Koni shocks because they send you the shock first and then take back the busted one.

Either way, I think KW makes great stuff and they are by far the most comfortable coilovers I've had.