How much oil remains in pan with engine running?

[Bigearl]

I am using a 2007 4.6 3v motor in a Cobra kit car and I have to cut 2" off the depth of the oil pan. I have widened the lower section to 14.5" so I don't loose capacity, in fact I will pickup a 1/2 quart. I am figuring about 5 1/2 quarts in the pan and 1 quart in the filter, based on pan area I figure I will have 2.5" of oil depth in the modified pan and I am hoping this will show correctly on the dipstick. I have already bent up 16 ga steel and the pan is ready for tack welding. I plan to install a baffle system not using hinged doors but rather using horizontal baffles at the right height to reduce oil from rushing to the side under cornering and starving the pickup. This method has been suggested by others and I think it makes sense particularly with a wide shallow pan.
So my question is under running conditions how much oil is in the engine and not yet drained back, if it was a quart I would reduce my baffle height to 2" which is the height of about 4 1/2 quarts. this is not a precise science as lots of factors come into play with oil drain back but it would be helpful to have some guidance.
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[JC SSP]

Not seeing pics makes it a little difficult but I understand what you want to do and I have done this before on my other cars many years ago.

The focus should be on the oil pick up being submerged in oil 100% of the time. Also keeping oil from splashing on the crank (windage tray) is the second most important part. The baffling is a good idea but if your not auto crossing or constant hard Cornering it should be lower on the priority list of oil pan modification’s.

 

[Bigearl]

Thank you JC SSP for your response, sorry about lack of photo. I am keeping the stock windage tray and I believe the oil level should not be higher in the modded pan than the stock pan. So the issue is to prevent oil build up excessively laterally during cornering or forward during braking. I am expecting that a full horizontal baffle with approximately 3" diameter hole for the pickup and some drainage holes will partially trap the oil from excessive lateral movement. Further forward I am planning on a vertical baffle bent down from the horizontal material, to about 3/4" from the pan bottom to slow oil flow forward during hard braking. As the oil depth will be less with the larger area of pan ( approx 1/2 the depth), this baffling is to try to ensure the pickup is always submerged. My modification is similar to the attached but 4.5" deep and 14.5" wide.
I hope the attachment will be clear. Earl

 

[Racer47]

I don't know exactly how much oil is kept in 4.6 but based on other dry sump race motors that I've had, I'd guess that there is more than a quart left in the engine, maybe 1.5 and up to 2 quarts at high rpm and cornering. The heads can hold a lot of oil. The cam phasers also hold some. But late model engines do drain back better than the old v8s. So its still a guess. I also run a 1/2 quart above the top of the full level for racing with no sign of aeration.

Be careful to not trap oil on top of your horizontal baffle. I'm not sure I even like that idea. All the pans that I've had over the years had a good windage tray and vertical baffles. My last race 351C wet sump also had hinged baffles which worked very well. Personally, I would try to use those. I'm not saying your idea won't work. But if I were doing it, I'd stick with proven success.

Is this going to be a road race car? If yes, the longer corners are more demanding on the oil system. Autox and street are much more forgiving.

 

[JC SSP]

4.6 is wet sump?

 

[07 Boss]

4.6 is wet sump?

Well the oil stays in the pan so its a wet sump and we have a single pump. We do not have an external oil tank or two pumps required for a dry sump.

 

[JC SSP]

Thats what I thought...

 

[Racer47]

I know its a wet sump. I guess I wasn't clear about what I was saying. Or I worded it poorly.

With a dry sump, you have a separate tank and you can easily measure the level. When the engine is started fresh, the tank oil level goes down by the amount of oil in the lines and in the engine. So based on that experience, I'm estimating that oil removed from a wet sump pan is 1.5 - 2 quarts when running high rpm and cornering (worst case).

You can't get an accurate oil level on a running wet sump pan. But I used to know exactly how much oil left the dry sump tank of a running engine.

Does that make more sense?

 

[Bigearl]

Thanks Racer47, that is good info you have given. The car is not intended for racing but who knows what we might do in the future, but not circular track.
When I look at the shallow pans from Moroso and Champ they have a horizontal section above the hinged baffles with drainage at the edges and pickup hole and apparently they get the oil to the pickup ok. My proposed baffle would be edge to edge inside the widened portion of the pan so it does present a bigger horizontal area than the moroso pan but I would include drainage holes at the area of the head drainage along with edge and pickup hole cavity, so I hope drainback would be ok.
By placing this horizontal baffle at the correct depth in the pan it would act as anti-climb during cornering, and keep more oil in the pickup area. The correct depth would be the depth at the running oil level, so if 2 qts are in the engine that leaves 4.5 in the pan and I would set the baffle at the corresponding height above to pan bottom. That means the baffle should be positioned 1 7/8" above the bottom of the pan. Which incidentally appears to be the Moroso height of the horizontal section.
I have attached a photo of the Moroso pan which seems to be the best on the market but out of stock for 4.6 as the Coyote is the choice these days. I notice the Moroso pan is angled down at the driver side back corner, does anyone know why?
Thanks for all the in put, Earl

 

[Racer47]

I would hope that moroso has done their testing but I would still like to see a more direct path to the bottom, especially along the sides. Don't forget that you will need to shorten the oil pick up tube to match the pan. The cut out may be for steering shaft clearance.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Aftermarket oil pans like those typically require a different pickup tube. Keep that in mind.

 

[Bigearl]

Thanks for the input, yes the pickup has to be shortened and that will be done once the welding is complete. Welding is underway, we are doing some welding and some brazing, will clean the pan with acid and give it a alkali rinse then test for leaks.
The cobra steering shaft is well above the pan so I am still wondering why the angled section.