Ideas on wtf went wrong here?

[eighty6gt]

How does an engine run for more than an instant when you drive and drive and eventually bend all of the valves!!? Makes no sense to me.

 

[thump_rrr]

Been a few years but you used to be able to buy FRPP stage 2 heads for about $1K each I believe. Bolt them up and go. Check with Livernois.

FRPP 3V heads are discontinued.

Last July when I wanted a set I called TASCA and they checked in their system and gave me a list of dealers who showed heads in stock.

There were very few heads in stock and no more available.
From the few that were actually in stock 1 complete set was for the owners car and another were damaged.

I ended up with 1 head from Georgia and the other from Summit Racing.

Edit Brand new stock left head on fleabay $540 not sure what spark plug it takes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-FORD-BRAND-NEW-OE-RF9L3E-3V-4-6-HEAD-LEFT-SIDE-/202017524273?hash=item2f092eca31:g:UbAAAOSwmZdZjRRh&vxp=mtr

 

[05sonic4.6]

That's a pretty good price, especially since it's complete with cam and all the other goodies, I'll keep that on the watch list for now. Got a potential set of frpp heads a fellow member is selling with zero run time so may jump on them while I can.

 

[05sonic4.6]

Well a new day a new headache. Pulled he motor back out and began disassembly. I pulled the one piston out with the ptv contact so I could polish it out and I'm not to sure about how this cylinder looks. There appears to be a bit of irregular wear on the cylinder and piston. So need some opinions on the cause again. I'd almost rather this be something I did at this point because if this is from the guy not boring and honing the block with a torque plate properly I may actually kill him.

You can just barely catch a nail on some spots. It almost just feels kinda rough if you run your nail real slow over it on both the piston and cylinder. similar marking are on each cylinder. Although some barely visible compared to others.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[05sonic4.6]

I should add if it's something I did spare no detail, it's certainly not a mistake I want to make again.

 

[eighty6gt]

What were piston to bore clearances, what cyl head fasteners were used, what pistons are those?

 

[05sonic4.6]

Looks like I'm getting about .045-.050in for bore clearance, my mocrometer isn't the best but that seems very loose right? That's also at the top of the bore, unfortunately I don't have a dial bore gauge to get down in the cylinder. I used arp studs and they are diamond -15cc pistons

 

[rickf]

Something scratched the cylinder wall and it was not the aluminum piston. Looks to me like a lack of lubrication. Did you use assembly lube on the pistons? Even without those scratches should not be there. I am thinking not enough ring gap and no lube. If you want a dead serious, honest assessment of what I think happened? I think this motor was assembled in too much of a hurry and some fine points of engine assembly were overlooked.

 

[05sonic4.6]

I lubed the pistons and cylinders with a copious amount of wd40 before installation. I had thought this was an appropriate lubrication but I'm willing to admit that may be wrong.

 

[skwerl]

WD40 isn't a good lubricant. It's a water displacement fluid. Most auto parts stores sell assembly lube. Typically a brightly colored grease which will dissolve in gas or oil.

 

[rickf]

I have used STP or Motor Honey as an assembly lube for 40 plus years and never had an assembly related failure. It is hard as hell to hold onto stuff when it has STP on it but you know that it will be well lubed until the oil starts flowing and at that point the STP just becomes an additive that gets changed out when you change the oil. Which I do after an hour of running.

 

[05sonic4.6]

Well than that's probably my fuck up then.

 

[RocketcarX]

I lubed the pistons and cylinders with a copious amount of wd40 before installation. I had thought this was an appropriate lubrication but I'm willing to admit that may be wrong.

This was a terrible idea and likely the source of at least some of your issues. Use straight Lucas Oil Stabilizer as an assembly lube, it is literally suitable on any surface, bearings and cam journals included. If nothing else straight gear oil (I hate the smell) is a perfectly acceptable engine assembly lube.
It's simple and easy to remember. Beyond that you need a black/grey moly based lube for bolt threads and under bolt heads and that is it.

 

[05sonic4.6]

I can remember where I read that it was ok to use wd, I sure feel stupid now. I guess my next question is are these pistons salvageable? And I'm assuming at the very least the block will need to be re honed.

If worst case I need to get the block bored again are these blocks ok at .030 with boost? It's already .020 as of now.

And I'm running boss connecting rods so as far as the rod bolts go will I need to replace them or are they ok to reuse?

 

[rickf]

I would say the pistons are fine as long as the block does not need to be bored of coarse. I can't help with that one since I am not there to see it myself. I see you are in NJ, What part? I am about 20 miles south of Trenton. Rod bolts, are they torque to yield bolts? If not then they will be fine. I would plan on replacing the rings.

 

[Juice]

Well a new day a new headache. Pulled he motor back out and began disassembly. I pulled the one piston out with the ptv contact so I could polish it out and I'm not to sure about how this cylinder looks. There appears to be a bit of irregular wear on the cylinder and piston. So need some opinions on the cause again. I'd almost rather this be something I did at this point because if this is from the guy not boring and honing the block with a torque plate properly I may actually kill him.

You can just barely catch a nail on some spots. It almost just feels kinda rough if you run your nail real slow over it on both the piston and cylinder. similar marking are on each cylinder. Although some barely visible compared to others.

Let me know what you guys think.

It maybe an optical illusion, but the it looks like the piston skirt is mushroomed, like it hit the crank counterweight.

Piston - bore clearance .050"????? General rule of thumb .001" per inch of bore.

.005" would be OK.

 

[Juice]

How does an engine run for more than an instant when you drive and drive and eventually bend all of the valves!!? Makes no sense to me.

You can bend valves in an engine three different ways.

1 Timing chain put on incorrectly. This would be very obvious and immediate after start up.

2 Valve guides too tight, and when the engine heats up the valves get stuck open and don't close before the piston comes back up. This would happen under high load, high RPMs.

3 Valve float from overrevving.

 

[05sonic4.6]

I would say the pistons are fine as long as the block does not need to be bored of coarse. I can't help with that one since I am not there to see it myself. I see you are in NJ, What part? I am about 20 miles south of Trenton. Rod bolts, are they torque to yield bolts? If not then they will be fine. I would plan on replacing the rings.

Yeah I think minimum I'm looking at is new rings and hone and worst bore another .010 and get new pistons which sucks cause then I'll have to get a rebalance as well. I'll have to polish up the piston skirts at least as well. That's just the picture, it does look a little funny but there's no eveidence of contact with the counter weight.

As far as the bolts I'm not sure I've read conflicting post. Some say it's ok to reuse some say no so idk. They probably not that expensive if I need to order new ones.

 

[eighty6gt]

Assembly manuals don't specify lube for bores. First time you spin the engine it's gone. My rings scraped my bores clean. I have lubed them with clean engine oil - this time and others. When you crank the engine oil flies off of the big ends and splashes all over the bores and under the pistons.

For the valves, so far I am partial to the just mentioned tight guide theory. Figure out that measurement. Send those piston and bore photos to your piston manufacturer. They probably won't know much, either. Piston to bore of .005 seems loose even for forged. See what they say.

 

[05sonic4.6]

Ok I'll take measurements of the guides and valves and report back.

I think these pistons are going to be ok. I took the bottom end all out today and none of them have any deep scars or anything just very fine markings. Is there a recommended way to clean these up in case there is any high spots?