Internal coolant leak, need some help on this one...

[jonnieguns]

Are you located in an area with cold temperatures. Up here in Canada our oil filler cap will look like that in the winter. It is just condensation & nothing to worry about. In my opinion you would see milkshake in your oil if antifreeze was getting in there. I would do a leak down test.

Nope, San Diego. Plus the significant amount of fluid missing.

No way that much of a milkshake formed in the last few days, you've had a leak for a while.
.

I was figuring it must be a pretty catastrophic leak to happen so quickly. The coolant was filled to the "Cold Fill Range" a few days ago, and now there's none to be seen.

 

[one eyed willy]

If you lost gallons of coolant into your oil you would have seen it on the dip stick and your oil would have looked like chocolate milk. That oil cap can be caused by condensation in the motor mixing with the oil.

Did you see smoke from the exhaust....that's usually the first sign of a bad head gasket.

Remember your oil PSI is between 30-90 PSI while your coolant at max would only be 16, so it's very unlikely for water to push past the oil somewhere other than a blown head gasket. I'm guessing you have a leak somewhere else.

I chased a internal leak for months, it was a small hole in my factory head between a water passage and oil passage, it was the size of a pin hole , a defect on my factory stock head! Never did I get water in my oil, I just kept getting oil in my water tank.

You can rent of buy a pressure testing kit. I would test the coolant side before tearing things apart.

 

[JimIII@JDM]

I have seen that white jelly looking crap in the oil fill cap like your seeing here before. Usually its just moisture and condensation. That is the highest point in your engine so when water vapors are trying to exit the engine they will stop at the cap and collect there with oil and that is what you get.

Was it the engine coolant reservoir that was empty or the supercharger coolant tank? I have seen the inter-coolers crack and leak coolant into the manifold.

 

[jonnieguns]

Engine coolant reservoir, sorry for not specifying. The valve covers were pulled and the system was pressure tested. Coolant was found leaking from one of the studs. The heads will come off next.

There was some smoke from the exhaust, but I've seen small amounts before during cold starts. I didn't connect it to a bad gasket until you guys mentioned it as a symptom.

 

[RED09GT]

Were the studs brand new? I've had a couple instances with other motors (ford 351W, and a 2.0L SVT focus) where brand new ARP studs have loosened after a few heat cycles despite being torqued to the ARP specs with the ARP lube.

My machinist says that with a brand new set, he torques them and backs them off 5 or 6 times otherwise they have the potential to back off. I've read of a few other engine builders that say they need to be torque cycled as well, the number of times is up for debate.

 

[Wild White Pony]

I had a similar problem after a shortblock install. Had that pus in my valve covers thought at first it was condensation. Throw in a dye pack into the coolant, pop the valve covers and pressurize the cooling system, check for leaks you can rent one for free at the parts store.

I had 2 ARP head studs leaking, the water never contaminated the oil in the pan it vaporizes in the valve covers and is extracted by the oil water sep.

The back 2 studs on the passenger side needed sealant on the threads, this may be happening with you to I'd check.
After that use a block bubbler to check your head gaskets, you can rent them too.

Cross your fingers you may get lucky and be something less than disaster.

 

[jonnieguns]

The studs were new along with the rest of the parts, so that could be a cause. Unfortunately, my leak definitely contaminated the oil pan. Like you said, I'm crossing my fingers that it's not a total loss.

 

[one eyed willy]

The directions on arp studs are for hand tight only before torquing them down. Not sure what procedure you followed but if the studs are tightened with them too far down they can crack the block and allow coolant to come up thru the stud holes.

 

[jonnieguns]

For those with ARP studs, do you need to pull the motor to get the heads off? Mine was installed after assembly.

 

[Wild White Pony]

The studs were new along with the rest of the parts, so that could be a cause. Unfortunately, my leak definitely contaminated the oil pan. Like you said, I'm crossing my fingers that it's not a total loss.

If you have water in the pan your prolly going have to tear down the motor unless you caught it right away, I'm surprised you didn't already loose the bearings they go pretty quick in that situation. You can put a coolant pressure tester on it just to see if you can see or hear anything with the valve covers off. Don't use the bubbler since you need to run the motor for that to check head gasket leaks.

 

[DiMora]

All this ARP head stud talk of leaks and cracks scares me and makes me want to use new factory TTY bolts.

 

[AutoXRacer]

All this ARP head stud talk of leaks and cracks scares me and makes me want to use new factory TTY bolts.

I've been thinking it since the first mention!! lol
I was looking for a stud kit until I read this thread...

OEM TTY bolts for me.

 

[Wild White Pony]

I think I'd agree with ya, never really hear of people lifting the head on these 3v, I'd prolly keep the stock TTY bolts and MLS Gasket for under 18# of boost or so. The only thing I'd change is the plastic Dgas reservoir to aluminum in case the head did lift.

 

[one eyed willy]

Advantage of ARP is being able to re-use them. As many times as I have had to pull my heads , I would have needed 10 sets of TTY bolts. Nothing wrong with ARP, people just need to understand or read the instructions before they install them.

 

[BruceH]

Advantage of ARP is being able to re-use them. As many times as I have had to pull my heads , I would have needed 10 sets of TTY bolts. Nothing wrong with ARP, people just need to understand or read the instructions before they install them.

FRPP gives you a free set of tty bolts every time you buy head gaskets! Lol.

 

[DVEST8R]

FRPP gives you a free set of tty bolts every time you buy head gaskets! Lol.

FTW

 

[Wild White Pony]

How often do you change head gaskets? I'm still on my first set with 2 years F.I. on this block and plenty of 1/4 mile runs. I think once you get into the 20 psi range it would be a needed. This would be a good question? how many people are running more than 15# of boost with stock Head Bolts?

 

[sportinawoody]

studs for me, boost estimated around 18-19 in the end, build in progress.

 

[BruceH]

I've ran a 9.4:1 motor with 17psi from a Whipple. I've also run a 10.76:1 motor with 19psi from a Procharger. Never had a problem and I've never had to have heads resurfaced. A friend of mine has run 23psi with tty and not had an issue. I've gone on about this before and I'm about to again, lol.

First off, Ford uses quality parts. This isn't directed at you, it's just a general statement. Just because a GM motor lifts heads with stock hardware doesn't mean that Ford is using the same hardware and that the same result will happen. If anything the success of the GT500 and Terminator motors handling high boost and power with tty was encouragement enough for me to use them. I also benefit from working with a number of stress engineers. From time to time I'll bounce ideas off of them.

What tty bolts do is yield at an engineered level. This means that the torque will always be correct because the bolt enters a plastic state and is designed to stay in it without breaking. Having the same torque on each fastener means that the clamping force is equal and the head isn't going to warp. This not only protects the head but it helps with sealing. IMO if enough boost is being used that head bolts are required then you might as well o ring the block too.

Ford engineered the block with long head bolts in order to help with bore deflection. Something else that I've never done is torque plate hone. I would if I was using studs based on one very meticulous members measurements of bore distortion when a torque plate was installed with studs.

With all of that said I realize that I'm just a guy who likes to assemble motors in the garage. I don't claim to be anything more than a hobbiest.

FYI for anyone who is wondering the frpp 3v head changing kit comes with gaskets and bolts. It costs $58. That's why I made the joke to Paul because even if you don't use the bolts you still end up buying the whole kit just for the good price on the gaskets.

How often do you change head gaskets? I'm still on my first set with 2 years F.I. on this block and plenty of 1/4 mile runs. I think once you get into the 20 psi range it would be a needed. This would be a good question? how many people are running more than 15# of boost with stock Head Bolts?

 

[Wild White Pony]

^ I would absolutely agree with this, and have run 15psi on the stock TTY bolts with no problem. As the problem that may of occurred to the O.P. I would bet that they hand tighten the head studs, I know we did but I still had a leaky head bolt, that was an easy fix with some ARP sealant. If his problems were related to head studs, I would bet it was more about how it was torqued, I seen multiple threads about ARP head studs and the proper torque, anywhere from 80# to 110#.

Will be interesting to hear from the O.P. when he gets it torn down.

ARP instructions to 100# but many of the performance shops swear to 85#
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/256-4202.pdf