Is this a fair price?

[BAKnBLK2010]

One thing that must be remembered when we are performing calibration work is we do not just spend 3 or 4 hours on a tune. We devote multiple days into a calibration to ensure the best possible tuning and drivability. This, unlike many other places, includes unlimited dyno runs, where many put a limit on it. We will never be the cheapest, and I will admit we are more than others, but I feel the last thing to cheap out on is calibration. It is the single most important aspect of any build, but its the first one people will undervalue. The fact that we have literally zero engine failures on any customer's 3v cars we have tuned I think speaks the most to why we charge what we charge.

Also, other aspects need to be taken into account on tunes like this, 95% of the dyno tunes we do for outside customers need some mechanical attention, so we will usually need to have some mechanic's time allotted for tuning. We make cars right, not just tune around problems and ship them out the door (not saying that anyone mentioned in this thread does that, but I have personally been victim to that in my life before working here).

Have you had any new 5.0 failures? Not being a jerk just asking.

 

[Steedman07]

All that being said, $850 is still too much. I am all about "you get what you pay for", but Ive never seen a pro dyno tune to be that much. I will mention that you guys have an outstanding track record.

 

[Seer]

All that being said, $850 is still too much. I am all about "you get what you pay for", but Ive never seen a pro dyno tune to be that much. I will mention that you guys have an outstanding track record.

I have seen dyno tuners kick a person off their dyno though if the car was acting up and wouldn't diagnose the problems. I've also seen many "dyno tuners" just work on WOT for $400.

 

[Steedman07]

I have seen dyno tuners kick a person off their dyno though if the car was acting up and wouldn't diagnose the problems. I've also seen many "dyno tuners" just work on WOT for $400.

True..

On a side note, I am glad I have a damn good tuner...Its a plus he is a good friend of mine..

 

[Andy@Livernois]

All that being said, $850 is still too much. I am all about "you get what you pay for", but Ive never seen a pro dyno tune to be that much. I will mention that you guys have an outstanding track record.

Maybe I just look at it differently. My personal experience with dyno tuning was before I worked here. My car had been to 3 different shops before I bought it and 2 different shops after I bought it trying to get tuned. The 2 shops I took it to both told me it was perfect, but when I picked it up the car barely ran, and got (on a good day) 15mpg. For the small camshaft that was in it and basic bolt on's it seemed like something was wrong with the car. Asking both shops for help they basically just said, we don't know, your car is just messed up, we did what we could, and they sent me packing. Now mind you, I went the cheap route both of these times, but together they cost more then what Livernois wanted for tuning it in the first place and I was still where I started with the car. Fast forward a month or so and I finally brought it to Livernois because I expected mechanical work to be needed. Luckily for me that was not the case. Within 45 minutes they had it running better then ever, and a few days later when it was all done I finally enjoyed driving it and was getting 27mpg with it (like the car should have). Sure they cost more than either one of those shops by themselves, but after wasting my money with 2 supposedly great tuners I dropped the cash and had it done right.

By no means am I saying that there aren't good tuners out there that do work for less, but our experience, and skill set is definitely a big part of it and I feel that is justified. On top of that. You have to ask yourself who else in the industry is like us? 2 chassis dyno's, an OEM supplier that does engineering work for the OEM's, does calibration work for, and with numerous aftermarket suppliers.

 

[MOC826]

^^completely off topic but could you tell me why your guys short blocks have gone up a solid $1000 since about 8 to 12 months ago? thats a pretty huge price increase for the same parts being use.. dont bash me cause idk much about economy and price of parts and yada yada. that just seems unreal to me

 

[skwerl]

Back on topic in response to the OP-

I also recently bought a Mustang and then put a (lightly) used m90 on it. The blower and all related parts came from a wrecked 2010 Roush 427R with 6900 miles on it. I had my mechanic install the blower and then I took it to Justin at VMP for the tune. He spent about 4 hours on it and charged me $700. The car runs and drives great.

 

[Andy@Livernois]

^^completely off topic but could you tell me why your guys short blocks have gone up a solid $1000 since about 8 to 12 months ago? thats a pretty huge price increase for the same parts being use.. dont bash me cause idk much about economy and price of parts and yada yada. that just seems unreal to me

Not certain what shortblocks you are referring to, could you give me an example? Over the course of the last year iron block engines have gone up about $300 due to increases in the cost of the block and crankshaft. Aluminum engines have gone up $500 for the same reasons. Not certain where $1000 came from. I don't think in the 6 years I have worked here the prices have increased anything other than these most recent increases. When I first started here 6 years ago it was $4999 for a 3v stroker shortblock, now its $5499. Unfortunately Ford's price on the engine blocks basically doubled compared to what they used to cost, and there was no way to bury it. We have been burying the slight cost increases over the years but this recent wave of crank/block price hikes was something that couldn't be buried into it. But again, not certain where $1000 came from.

guys, remember, we aren't a guy working in his garage for side money, and he's paying someone else to tune it. You are talking about processes and procedures in installation, tuning, machning, etc. that all have 3 layers of quality control. comparing us to this type of shop where a guy does everything off the books and has maybe 1 employee isn't a fair comparison. those shops exist and I realize that many of you use those types of shops and I don't hold that against anyone, but where are they usually in a couple of years time? There aren't many, if any, shops that can say they were born from over 55 years in the OEM world and have been around for well over a decade in the performance aftermarket world.

Everyday i get calls from around the country from people saying there car was in a shop and it went under, or its been to multiple shops and they cant figure it out and they want to ship it to us. There is a reason people ship us their car's from literally all over the world. To date we have had cars from 9 countries, 4 continents, and at least 38 states in the union. This is because of the value we offer, and the quality of workmanship we provide. Not because our pricing is too low or too high. We know we wont be able to be everything to everyone, nor would we try to. We simply want to be what we feel we are. The best parts, service, and quality in the industry.

 

[skwerl]

Andy,
The ones that understand don't need explanations. For others no explanation will ever be good enough.

 

[MOC826]

Not certain what shortblocks you are referring to, could you give me an example? Over the course of the last year iron block engines have gone up about $300 due to increases in the cost of the block and crankshaft. Aluminum engines have gone up $500 for the same reasons. Not certain where $1000 came from. I don't think in the 6 years I have worked here the prices have increased anything other than these most recent increases. When I first started here 6 years ago it was $4999 for a 3v stroker shortblock, now its $5499. Unfortunately Ford's price on the engine blocks basically doubled compared to what they used to cost, and there was no way to bury it. We have been burying the slight cost increases over the years but this recent wave of crank/block price hikes was something that couldn't be buried into it. But again, not certain where $1000 came from.

i remember very well when the 3v stroker shortblock was $4499 and the non stroker was $4299... maybe you guys were having a sell or something at the time and thats the only time i can remember but i remember those exact prices for those specific short blocks. i can understand the price of the blocks going up so its understandable. i know the rotating assemblies havent gone up in price i dont think but maybe a couple hundred dollars

 

[Andy@Livernois]

i remember very well when the 3v stroker shortblock was $4499 and the non stroker was $4299... maybe you guys were having a sell or something at the time and thats the only time i can remember but i remember those exact prices for those specific short blocks. i can understand the price of the blocks going up so its understandable. i know the rotating assemblies havent gone up in price i dont think but maybe a couple hundred dollars

we used to have a price of 4499 if you provided a usable core block, but we haven't advertised that in about 5 years, but the outright was always 4999. I don't remember a sale on them because we still to this day can't build them fast enough for demand. the slower moving 2v/4v stuff we have had sales on in the past, but I don't recall any on the 3v stuff. I could of course be wrong, and maybe Rick can chime in on this.

 

[minivanracer]

i say 500 is right for power adder, 250 for n/a

 

[Seer]

this is really an apples to oranges comparison

 

[StangPower05]

400 at EVOlution

 

[minivanracer]

yeah true you get what you pay for

 

[shanshine]

No I have not really contacted anyone else besides Livernois. I did contact JPC racing because he tuned it last time, but they are located in Connecticut, so thats not realistic. I have yet to hear back from Brenspeed.

If you are talking about JPC Racing (Justins Performance Center, Inc) we are located in MD not Connecticut. I know it doesnt really make us any closer to you just wanted to clarify. =)


Of course we would love to help you out but understand we are far away.

Brenspeed is good people and there is also a place called PTP (Part time Performance) they are located in Ohio and have a stand up reputation. Ask for Jason or Andy. Jason is a world Champion Drag Radial racer.

 

[bw281]

I have also researched a price on this with reputable local tuners and I was looking at 400-500, and that would be with the xcal 2 I own.

 

[bmaxwell]

Damn this guy is pretty cocky about his company (Livernois). Definitely a good company and all but 850? Come on now

 

[Seer]

Damn this guy is pretty cocky about his company (Livernois). Definitely a good company and all but 850? Come on now

they're not just throwing the car on the dyno, making 2-3 wot pulls, making changes, then driving it on the street for 30 minutes.

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

Have you had any new 5.0 failures? Not being a jerk just asking.

Andy skipped right over this question. Wonder why?