Larger Heat Exchanger on a Daily Driver

[tmcolegr]

I have read every thread I can find on the root causes and unwanted affects of heat soak on our S197’s in a daily driver application. Before I make a large investment in a larger heat exchanger w/fans, cooling pump, reservoir, etc. I have some concerns:

Heat Exchanger - What positive affect does a larger (taller & wider) heat exchanger do when the grill opening prevents additional airflow from passing through the larger cooler? I can see if the heat exchanger was thicker as that would expose the core area to more airflow. The stock Saleen heat exchanger is already almost as large as the lower grill opening on the stock GT. The wider/taller area of the heat exchanger would just be hidden behind the portion of the front fascia, which receives no airflow. This was one of the reasons I switched to the GT 500 front fascia with larger grill openings – more airflow through the radiator, trans. cooler, A/C condenser and S/C heat exchanger.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70445&highlight=GT+500+front+fascia

Cooling Pump – Moving the coolant through the intercooler core and heat exchanger too fast reduces the amount of time the coolant has to absorb and dissipate the heat. Doesn’t this make the problem with heat soak worse?

Coolant Reservoir – this option seems to make the most sense to me. By relocating the battery, a larger coolant reservoir can be installed. The phrase “the solution to pollution is dilution” seems to apply here. On a daily driver, very little time is spent at high boost levels, which is what generates the unwanted heat. The larger the reservoir, the more time before the coolant temperature is raised enough to reduce the efficiency of the heat exchanger, which eventually leads to heat soak and loss of power.

Heat Exchanger Cooling Fans – this seems to be valuable modification for a daily driver that spends time idling in traffic with little or no airflow through the heat exchanger.

Please keep in mind all these questions apply to a daily driver – not a vehicle that sees track use. I would like to get others thoughts and opinions on this issue.

 

[don_w]

My 2 centavos...


Heat Exchanger - Air flow across the HE isn't the only part of the equation. The added surface area of a larger HE will help. Heat will dissipate to some degree anyway.

Cooling Pump – Think of it this way, moving coolant out of the intercooler quicker will likely have more benefit than any sort of possible negative from moving it through the HE quicker. Add in the additional cooling capacity of a larger HE and I see it as a definite plus.

Coolant Reservoir – While what you say is partially true, once the water (coolant) reaches a certain temp, then I can't see the size of the reservoir making a lot of difference. It's not going to provide any significant cooling effects when compared to the pump and HE. The benefit of a large reservoir is most evident at the track, when you can stuff it full of ice.

Heat Exchanger Cooling Fans - I would agree... adding fans would be beneficial, especially if you could figure out a way to incorporate a shroud on the backside.

 

[tmcolegr]

Thanks for your response Don - all good points.

I was looking at the lower grill on the GT 500 front fascia and the outer 6"-8" of the grill are closed off - not open to air flow. If that portion of the grill was opened up, it would allow improved air flow to a wider heat exchanger.

 

[Hawgman]

I'm with Don on pretty much everything he said (not that he was seeking my acceptance or anything... just sayin') with the exception of the coolant reservoir. The Saleen reservoir is only about the size of a friggin' drink can in the first place. Any increase has to help at least some.

I relocated my power steering reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir supposed to go, and installed a GT500 SC reservoir in it's factory position. Pretty much doubled reservoir size. Not a significant increase.. but like I said, with the Saleen anything has to be a benefit over what it comes with.

 

[tmcolegr]

I'm with Don on pretty much everything he said (not that he was seeking my acceptance or anything... just sayin') with the exception of the coolant reservoir. The Saleen reservoir is only about the size of a friggin' drink can in the first place. Any increase has to help at least some.

I relocated my power steering reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir supposed to go, and installed a GT500 SC reservoir in it's factory position. Pretty much doubled reservoir size. Not a significant increase.. but like I said, with the Saleen anything has to be a benefit over what it comes with.

Does anyone know if the Saleen Extreme uses a larger reservoir?

I would go the GT 500 reservoir route but I just installed a Canton P/S reservoir and was hoping for something a little larger. If someone came up with a significantly larger reservoir that didn't require relocating the battery they would definitely have a winner.

 

[ZmanM3]

I'm with Don on pretty much everything he said (not that he was seeking my acceptance or anything... just sayin') with the exception of the coolant reservoir. The Saleen reservoir is only about the size of a friggin' drink can in the first place. Any increase has to help at least some.

I relocated my power steering reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir supposed to go, and installed a GT500 SC reservoir in it's factory position. Pretty much doubled reservoir size. Not a significant increase.. but like I said, with the Saleen anything has to be a benefit over what it comes with.

I like that GT500 resovor idea. I may have to steal it.

 

[don_w]

I'm with Don on pretty much everything he said (not that he was seeking my acceptance or anything... just sayin') with the exception of the coolant reservoir. The Saleen reservoir is only about the size of a friggin' drink can in the first place. Any increase has to help at least some.

I'm not saying it won't help to enlarge it, all I'm saying is that the added cooling benefits of a larger reservoir are limited... especially on a street car. Eventually, the coolant will reach somewhat of a steady state, where the inlet/outlet temps won't vary much. Increasing the reservoir may delay the time it takes to reach this steady state, but I can't see it changing it measurably. Of the four items originally listed, I just feel it's the least important. Again, just my opinion...

 

[Hawgman]

And I completely agree. When the water reaches max temp it is going to reach it's all going to be the same temp, it doesn't matter if it is a half gallon or ten gallons.

 

[thump_rrr]

IMHO the reservoir is improperly placed at the outlet of the S/C rather than at the outlet of the heat exchanger so it is actually a place for warm water to gather.

 

[Cdvision]

You might want to check this out.
http://www.killerchiller.com/

 

[tmcolegr]

IMHO the reservoir is improperly placed at the outlet of the S/C rather than at the outlet of the heat exchanger so it is actually a place for warm water to gather.

That's an interesting idea.........

I thought the reservoir had to be in that specific location to provide a constant source of gravity flow coolant to the I/C pump so it wouldn't/couldn't cavitate. Also to prevent/purge air pockets in the system. I could be wrong though.

 

[thump_rrr]

That's an interesting idea.........

I thought the reservoir had to be in that specific location to provide a constant source of gravity flow coolant to the I/C pump so it wouldn't/couldn't cavitate. Also to prevent/purge air pockets in the system. I could be wrong though.

I agree that a small enough reservoir should be used in that location to purge air. There are also other methods of purging air such as auto bleeders which I'd like to install on the outlet tank of my heat exchanger.

I wish there was one to fit the very large opening in my Steeda front airdam.

 

[racevert]

I wish there was one to fit the very large opening in my Steeda front airdam.

There is a larger one. The AFCO double pass

I like the idea of a larger intercooler reservoir so you can run ice during a track run.

 

[flounderlipps]

Hi racevert
Where did you get that intercooler reservoir?

 

[Hawgman]

You might want to check this out.
http://www.killerchiller.com/

While the idea is cool (no pun intended) I just don't think I want to run the A/C constantly. It adds to underhood temps, decreases fuel economy, and decreases performance unless you are running WOT and engauging the A/C cutoff circuit.

 

[don_w]

Hi racevert
Where did you get that intercooler reservoir?

I'm not sure about racevert, but it looks a lot like the custom reservoir Adam @ ST made for me (and others).

 

[tmcolegr]

Unfortunately that reservoir isn't Saleen friendly

 

[don_w]

Unfortunately that reservoir isn't Saleen friendly

True... you'd probably have to do the battery re-location thing to allow for a chiller reservoir for a Saleen (at least until Adam designs a new air inlet for the Saleen that moves the filter to under the bumper).

 

[Cdvision]

In the June 2008 MM&FF mag there is an article on page 150 about an extra intercooler tank that mounts where the spare tire goes and holds about 8 gallons of coolant and comes with the hoses and pump for $650. I could not find any info online. Available at HP-Performance Inc.

 

[nmeofdst82]

Not sure exactly how to do it..but I can picture in my head how to do it...

I'm a computer nerd that has done a lot of water cooling and used peltier coolers in the past (1998 to now).

I'm surprised a peltier/external fan solution has not been developed to aid the HE. All the power (plenty after accessories) needed is there and then some off the stock alternator. A good 4-6x Peltier setup with cooling fans would only draw about the same power as a large amp used for a nice Sub.

The cooling advantages are tremendous. Even if it was used temporarily between runs at the track, the Battery could run a system like that for quite a while without risking "no start" issues.

I'm going to do some research and come up with a plan damnt. The cooling potential is just crazy not to look into it.