Long term experience with "extreme performance" DOT tires (5,000 miles or more?)

[mrgtx]

It goes without saying that the lifespan of the stickiest of the street legal tires is going to be very short compared to a "normal" tire...but it also seems to be true that some age better than others.

What DOT legal sticky tires have you driven for more than a few heat cycles? How did they hold up?

Tread wear aside, do some tires have compounds that are more stable over the miles than others? Even the stock BBP/Track Pack Pirelli PZeros seemed to have lost some of their stickiness by the end of their life.

One tire that I have heard very mixed information on is the BFG Rival. It's really hard to know how these will work out. The internet is contaminated with feedback from a BFG hosted press event where media was invited in to try out the new tires and compare them to comparable 200ish treadwear tires...the universal opinion was that they were stickier and held up to flogging better than the rest...but I also recall reading that they harden up after a relativel short number of cycles/miles and lose their performance edge.

As always, I am extremely grateful for the insight you guys have to share...I'm soaking up as much info as I can!

 

[sheizasosay]

"Stickiest" would probably be the Kumho Ecsta XS if we are talking about extreme performance tires. But there are a lot of other characteristics about tires other than ultimate grip that are meaningful. Depends on the application. Honestly, I don't really think there is a turd in that category. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Rival though.

 

[mrgtx]

"Stickiest" would probably be the Kumho Ecsta XS if we are talking about extreme performance tires. But there are a lot of other characteristics about tires other than ultimate grip that are meaningful. Depends on the application. Honestly, I don't really think there is a turd in that category. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Rival though.

Good feedback...and everything I have read on this forum and elsewhere more or less agress with your comment that there isn't a "turd in that category."

I guess I'm interested in what these tires are like after a few months or a year...could it be that the super sticky Khumo might lose its edge after a few thousand miles? Would it be hard as a rock after 10,000?

 

[sheizasosay]

I don't know how many miles you put on your ride or how much money you have or where you live (climate) or what your intent is, but all that matters. I would even consider tires outside of that category if you really want to have an advantage in the rubber department. There are other tires that are street legal that would do better in certain circumstances. I wouldn't mind having some Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Yeah. They bad. Do you want them north of the mason dixon line right now? Probably not.

 

[mrgtx]

I don't know how many miles you put on your ride or how much money you have or where you live (climate) or what your intent is, but all that matters. I would even consider tires outside of that category if you really want to have an advantage in the rubber department. There are other tires that are street legal that would do better in certain circumstances. I wouldn't mind having some Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Yeah. They bad. Do you want them north of the mason dixon line right now? Probably not.

Right on... Personally, I put 5,000-7,000 miles a year (spring-fall) on my Mustang and I'd love to be able to go two years on a set of tires and still have them be retain at least some of their stickiness through their lifespan. That might be asking a lot.

Yeah!! I looked at the Sport Cups (especially after the glowing reviews of them on the Z28) but they're just a bit too rich for my blood.

 

[Whiskey11]

"Stickiest" would probably be the Kumho Ecsta XS if we are talking about extreme performance tires. But there are a lot of other characteristics about tires other than ultimate grip that are meaningful. Depends on the application. Honestly, I don't really think there is a turd in that category. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Rival though.

I don't think Kumho has an Extreme Tire out right now that is competitive with the other Extreme Summers.

Here are the two Extreme Summers I've driven on:
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Sport Star Specs: 15,000 miles, 150 or so autocross runs. Just above the wearbars.

Hankook Ventus RS3V1: 12,000 miles and probably about 150 or so autocross runs. At the wearbars.

In my experience with the RS3's they were fast until they hit the wearbars, then they stopped being fast. That set of 265/40/18 RS3's lasted me basically 2 seasons.

Both sets of tires were flipped on the rims and swapped sides to increase the life of the tire by moving the inner tread (which was basically pristine) to the outside.

I have a set of 285/35/18 RS3V2's ready to go on wheels but haven't done so yet so I wont comment on how they wear.

 

[Mountain]

I've run on RS3 V1 with similar experience to Whiskey11.

I've also run RE-11's that had around 15,000 miles on them , 20 autocrosses, an Evo driving school and around 8 track days (all in everything from 30F to 95F, rain and some light snow to bone dry). Pretty solid tire, but not the most sticky. I seemed to have found that the closer they got to the wear bars, the stickier they got...

 

[cbass]

I loved my Nitto NT05's last year that I am buying the same ones again. I get about 10k-ish on them, but they are pretty well done at that point. More grip than I need, and they come in good sizes for us.

 

[Sky Render]

What do you need "sticky" tires for? Are you racing? If not, the Nitto NT-555s and Invos are very good for street driving, spirited back road driving, and longevity.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[sheizasosay]

I've run on RS3 V1 with similar experience to Whiskey11.

I don't think Kumho has an Extreme Tire out right now that is competitive with the other Extreme Summers.

Here are the two Extreme Summers I've driven on:
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Sport Star Specs

Hankook Ventus RS3V1

When I think "sticky" as by my own interpretation and of what I think the OP was probably asking is Max lateral G/Max dry grip. I fully realize I assumed. I'm also fine with that.

So since I have established my own definition of "sticky" for this thread, I think this will show my train of thought. Right or wrong, this is it (ref Car and Driver tire test and Tire Rack's two separate tests on extreme rubber):

The Kuhmos have beat all the other extreme performance tires in max lat G they were involved in, which is only 2 of the 3 tests I referenced. It also had the fastest time around the track in one of the tests. So it is competitive against the two tires you listed Whiskey. But with all that said, I still haven't seen TireRack break a 1G lat with the new rubber. The test results aren't perfectly comparable because the test where the car hit 1G was a 2008 BMW E92 328i coupes with new, full tread depth 225/45R17 tires mounted on 17x8.0" wheels. The next test that actually had the "newer" rubber like the RS3 version 2, Rival...etc was on 2014 BMW F30 328i sedans fitted with new, full tread depth 245/40R18 tires mounted on 18x8.0 wheels.

I still say get the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups....and give them to me.

SkyRender asked a good question. That's the whole "application" deal.

 

[white86hatch]

What do you need "sticky" tires for? Are you racing? If not, the Nitto NT-555s and Invos are very good for street driving, spirited back road driving, and longevity.

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And they come in the stock height in 18" sizes. I run 285/40-18 555's daily. 18k miles and still have plenty left. I'll be picking up a set of rs3's and a spare set of wheels soon though.

 

[csamsh]

Disclaimer: written from the point of view of someone who needs minimum 200TW tires for class legality.

The Turd is definitely the Toyo R1R, at least on a heavy car. Stay FAR away. The RT615k is OLD, but comes in big sizes, so while Rivals are AWOL, it's your only choice if you need a 315. The XS is also a turd because it’s 180TW. The AD08/R is a turd because of price. Bridgestone RE71R too new to tell. Bridgestone RE070 is a turd because of treadwear as well.

NT01, R888, P Zero Corsa, Michelin PS Cup, P Zero Trofeo, etc. are all irrelevant in this conversation.

I don’t know anything about the Dunlop Direzza (any version, seems well received, no great mutang sizes besides maybe 275/35/18) or Nitto NT05 (blech),Goodyear F1 Supercar G2's (seem pretty good on 1LE's) never run them.

Brief reviews of 200TW tires I have run on the street, and also autocrossed and tracked, and drag raced. Michelin Pilot Super Sport thrown in for good measure (it replaced a 220 and is supposedly faster, just wears longer).

BFG Rival: (autocrossed a TON, tracked a lot, street drive some, (non-DD), drag raced none. Great when new. Performance does fall off somewhat linearly with respect to heat resistance after their halfway point has been hit. Great overall life. By the end of the life of these guys, they would be fast in the first 2 or 3 laps but would die by lap 4. They pretty much became needing of Hoosier A6 treatment. The absolute best lap from the tire didn't really drop as far as I could tell, but the longevity and tolerance for heat really got hammered. I LOVED these tires at first and was incresigngly lukewarm as the aged, but until somebody else makes 295+ sizes these are the go-to. 2nd place for compound (loses to RS3 on feedback and longevity), 1st place for speed (on size and wheel mounting alone), 4th place for daily drivability (hydroplanes like mad). Overall 1st place

Hankook RS3: (autocrossed a lot, tracked once, street drove a little (non-dd), no drag racing). My favorite compound. Get em hot and leave em hot. Lots of stick, lots of feedback, lots of not coming any bigger than a 285. My first set did not seem to lose much through their lives, until they hit the wearbars, at which point they fell off a cliff. I sold the second set pretty early on in their lives. If Hankook would make a 305/35/18 RS3V2 I think I’d die from happiness. 1st place for compound, 2nd place for speed (loses to Rival on size), 3rd place for daily drivability. Overall 2nd place

Bridgestone RE11: (autocrossed some, tracked non, daily drove, probably 50 1/8mi passes). These were good tires. I have a hard time comparing them to the RS3 or Rival, as both the car and I have come long ways since I ran these tires, and I ran them back in 2012. They were what I went with after I burnt down the stock P Zeroes. I remember really liking them, and I remember great performance even in southern Alabama coastal monsoon rain. IIRC they lasted about 17k mi. 3rd place for compound, 3rd place for speed, 2nd place for daily drivability (loses to PSS on mileage and wet performance) Overall 3rd place

Michelin PSS: (autocrossed a lot, tracked once, daily drove, probably 50 1/8mi passes). These didn’t 60’ as well as the RE11’s. They were better in the wet, quite possibly the best wet street tires I’ve ever experienced. They so far have about 25k mi on the street, and about 1/3 tread left. It’s not the best at any performance metric- the other three are all grippier, but the value proposition in versatility, daily drivability, wet performance, and $/mi makes them a serious contender if you’re looking to have one and only one set of tires. 4th place on compound, 4th place on speed, 1st place on daily drivability Overall 4th place

PS the Z28 uses Pirelli Trofeo R's, not Michelin PS Cups

 

[Lucky_13]

cs, sweet info. How long did you get from the RS3's, approx? Can you speed more to the track (nonautox) experience?