Need Help: Charge Motion Delete Plates

[Geos05GTvert]

I just put in the Charge Motion Delete Plates. What the heck do I do with the CMRC actuator servo mechanism in the back of the manifold????? I removed that whole assembly was that the right move? I havent started the car yet.


My tuner said it was ok to put put the car over tomorrow to get the tune adjust does sound ok to everyone? It's about 20 miles from my house.

 

[MrClean]

Talk to the your tuner, and he'll tell you if it is turned off in the tune, in which case you did the right thing. Most likely that is the case. Who is your tune by?

I can't see a problem driving it like that, except that the computer might put you in "limp mode", which is a safety net.

 

[Tortuga]

not to thread whore or anything but what exactly are the Deletes for and what do the Deletes themselves do, what does the part that is being modified do b4 the deletes?

 

[Geos05GTvert]

It's not turned off right now. I'm taking the car to him tommrrow so he can adjust the tune. Problem is I dont want to tow the car over. It may go in limp mode what exactly is that?

Talk to the your tuner, and he'll tell you if it is turned off in the tune, in which case you did the right thing. Most likely that is the case. Who is your tune by?

I can't see a problem driving it like that, except that the computer might put you in "limp mode", which is a safety net.

 

[MrClean]

Thread Whore! (that's a joke, morgan!)

The plates are butterfly valves that are supposed to make the air/fuel mixture (charge) tumble, to make it more homogenous, at part throttle. At WOT, these things create an obstruction to air/fuel mix flow, so the mod is good for about 8-9 hp. It requires a retune, and replacement of the plate by plates that don't have the butterfly valves. The plate/valve assembly is called Charge Motion Control Valve (CMCV) so CMCV delete plates are the plates w/o the butterfly valves...

 

[MrClean]

It's not turned off right now. I'm taking the car to him tommrrow so he can adjust the tune. Problem is I dont want to tow the car over. It may go in limp mode what exactly is that?

If the tune doesn't account for the CMCV deletes, it can run lean...i.e. the computer isn't injecting enough fuel for the air entering the engine, so the computer, after a while of detecting this condition, could put you in limp mode meaning it will limit the rpms and possibly the throttle position, etc (don't know exactly what else) to prevent operation that could harm the engine.

I see from your sig you have an xCal2...have your tuner email you the updated tune, then download it to the xCal, then load it up...it is the best way to do it....I did the same thing in a similar situation.

 

[Tortuga]

Thread Whore! (that's a joke, morgan!)

The plates are butterfly valves that are supposed to make the air/fuel mixture (charge) tumble, to make it more homogenous, at part throttle. At WOT, these things create an obstruction to air/fuel mix flow, so the mod is good for about 8-9 hp. It requires a retune, and replacement of the plate by plates that don't have the butterfly valves. The plate/valve assembly is called Charge Motion Control Valve (CMCV) so CMCV delete plates are the plates w/o the butterfly valves...

are we talking:

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/6718/compareje0.jpg

first pic: removing the little gold things for another?

 

[Hawgman]

Nope, that is the throttle body.

The CMDPs are underneath the intake runners.

 

[Tortuga]

Nope, that is the throttle body.

The CMDPs are underneath the intake runners.

ok. i get it now.

 

[ixtlan]

Here is pic from Sltwagons removal.

 

[Kevin@PMP]

I just put in the Charge Motion Delete Plates. What the heck do I do with the CMRC actuator servo mechanism in the back of the manifold????? I removed that whole assembly was that the right move? I havent started the car yet.


My tuner said it was ok to put put the car over tomorrow to get the tune adjust does sound ok to everyone? It's about 20 miles from my house.

G - Leave the servo motor off, you did the right thing. Once the tune is corrected the PCM won't be looking for it to be there and it would just be dead weight.

If the tune doesn't account for the CMCV deletes, it can run lean...i.e. the computer isn't injecting enough fuel for the air entering the engine, so the computer, after a while of detecting this condition, could put you in limp mode meaning it will limit the rpms and possibly the throttle position, etc (don't know exactly what else) to prevent operation that could harm the engine.

That is incorrect, the tune to delete CMCVs primarily changes ignition and cam timing, additional air flow is measured and compensated for via the MAF.

 

[S197 GT]

What's up G-Rock...

Not sure if this will help at all, but when I was still NA, I got a mail order tune, that by accident was for use with the delete plates. I was still rocking the stock runners.

My car wouldn't even start, so just letting you know that this little mod will react differently based on the tune.

You may be able to make it over with the delete plates in while the tune doesn't account for them, but I couldn't even get the car to start in a vice versa situation.

 

[Geos05GTvert]

G - Leave the servo motor off, you did the right thing. Once the tune is corrected the PCM won't be looking for it to be there and it would just be dead weight.

Thanks Kev I left it off. It's my first mod that I've done to remove weight lol. My car weighed in at a stout 3970 with driver. Now it weighs 3969.5

What's up G-Rock...

Not sure if this will help at all, but when I was still NA, I got a mail order tune, that by accident was for use with the delete plates. I was still rocking the stock runners.

My car wouldn't even start, so just letting you know that this little mod will react differently based on the tune.

You may be able to make it over with the delete plates in while the tune doesn't account for them, but I couldn't even get the car to start in a vice versa situation.

Hey Nick,
Yeah I dont think my tuner will mail me the modified tune. You bring up a good point it would make it easier. I'll ask him tommorrow but I dont think he will do it. Anyway I need to drive my car to him I'm having a slight hesitation and I want him to tune it out. I tried starting the car and it started right up. I only let it run for about a minute. I wanted to check for gas leaks at the fuel injectors and or vacume leaks. I'm scheduled to go see my tuner on the 18th so I'll just bring it him then.

As usual your signure is the best on the site Nice job. I'm going to have to make buddies with that guy he does some amazing stuff with photo shop.

 

[Kevin@PMP]

Thanks Kev I left it off. It's my first mod that I've done to remove weight lol. My car weighed in at a stout 3970 with driver. Now it weighs 3969.5

Well we can work on that.

 

[MrClean]

That is incorrect, the tune to delete CMCVs primarily changes ignition and cam timing, additional air flow is measured and compensated for via the MAF.

I stand corrected.

So at part throttle he should be ok to drive the car to the tuner?

 

[Kevin@PMP]

I stand corrected.

So at part throttle he should be ok to drive the car to the tuner?

Yes, I would just keep it out of boost.

 

[Josh@PMP]

Yes, I would just keep it out of boost.

You can ask Kevin I had trouble getting my car inspected for some reason with the tune that was in it. I drove around for 100 Miles on the STOCK tune for the car with the KB setup on it.... Drove fine, just didn't get into boost and it didn't throw any codes.

 

[MrClean]

Kevin, if "additional air flow is measured and compensated for via the MAF", then why doesn't the computer also adjust for the ignition and cam timing, and fuel for that matter? All that is being added is more air...

Does the same hold trur for the tune when you add a CAI? The MAF compensates for the additional airflow, but that's it, then the tune is nede to adjust timing and fuel?

I ask because you do this for a living, (I think).

 

[cekim]

Kevin, if "additional air flow is measured and compensated for via the MAF", then why doesn't the computer also adjust for the ignition and cam timing, and fuel for that matter? All that is being added is more air...

Does the same hold trur for the tune when you add a CAI? The MAF compensates for the additional airflow, but that's it, then the tune is nede to adjust timing and fuel?

At a minimum, the cold-air intakes usually change the size of the measured volume of air which means the MAF curve in the tune must change...

Conceptually you can think of the MAF "sampling" the air flow in a small portion of the intake tube and multiplying that by the area of the intake...

So, given a particular voltage reading from the MAF, if you put it in a larger tube that same reading means more air passing per second than the same reading in a smaller tube... (its often not quite so linear given the joys of fluid dynamics).

There is a table in the PCM which correlates air-flow per second to voltage readings from the MAF...

Further, many Cold-air kits change the MAF senor itself - so that table has to be re-written entirely to match the calibration of the new MAF sensor...

The delete plates present a restriction to the intake - so if nothing else is changed, the MAF will simply see more air moving into the engine and report that (correctly) as higher MAF counts...

As for timing/fuel - the CMCV's were there to speed up/agitate the air coming in at lower RPMs which results in more efficient combustion at lower speeds...

The PCM has no concept of "measuring" this quantity so it relies on the values in the timing/fuel tables to have accounted for this...

It doesn't "adjust", it just reads out of a table based on RPM, load, temp, MAF etc.... That table needs to be adjusted by the tuner to compensate for the change in character of the air in the cylinder at lower RPMs and also to take advantage of the improved flow at higher RPMs...

 

[Kevin@PMP]

Kevin, if "additional air flow is measured and compensated for via the MAF", then why doesn't the computer also adjust for the ignition and cam timing, and fuel for that matter? All that is being added is more air...

Does the same hold trur for the tune when you add a CAI? The MAF compensates for the additional airflow, but that's it, then the tune is nede to adjust timing and fuel?

I ask because you do this for a living, (I think).

See what cekim said he explained everything in detail regarding the tune requirements for the CAI.

There is a setting to allow the CMCV's to open based on whether they are closed or open the PCM references multiple tables based on load and RPM to determine cam and ignition timing. The PCM has no way to determine if the CMCVs are present or not, in fact if they are deleted you change the CMCV closed tables because the PCM will always use those at that point.