New bolts needed for UPR control arms?

[Norm Peterson]

If it's sunk in at all, you're still compressing the poly and the joint is still slipping just a tiny bit. It may take a little force to pop the sleeve out in order to measure (and lube) it.

If you were to make the poly flush with the sleeve, or the sleeve ever so slightly longer than the poly, even that little tink should go away (and you'd have no worries about using the full 129 ft-lbs installation torque no matter whose poly bushings are in the arms). Bushing and inner sleeve life may take a hit if you don't keep the sleeve to poly surfaces lubed, but lubing the faces will become less critical for preventing squeaking. FWIW, poly bushings should be considered "wear parts".


Norm

 

[FiveLeeter]

going to upgrade the bolts in the front today after work, if that doesn't eliminate it I'll try to press that pin out.

Yea, UPR offers lifetime replacement on poly bushings.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Shouldn't need a press. Hammer and a punch of some sort, with the inner sleeve set over the gap between vice jaws should be enough.


Norm

 

[FiveLeeter]

yea that's what I meant lol.

 

[BMR Tech]

Interesting....

 

[fun4me]

I had to shave a tiny bit of delrin from my UCA to get the sleeve to bite. Well worth the extra time to do it right. My Metco UCA has been silent since day 1.

Is it possible that you overtorqued it the first time and deformed the sleeve?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Highly, extremely unlikely that the sleeve was deformed..

You'd snap the bolt in combined torsion plus tension long before you'd reach compressive yield in the inner sleeve, and the sleeve is way too short for it to buckle in pure compression (especially since the sleeve is laterally supported all around its circumference and along its length by the poly or Delrin).

The usual situation is that the non-OE bushings are supplied longer than the sleeves. Seen it several times.


Norm

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Norm, are you trying to say that "lowest bidder" parts houses didn't properly research the design, and are using the wrong parts in their fabrications? Say it isn't so... ;-)

Caveat Emptor, TANSTAAFL, etc.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not offering judgment, only observations and hints at one of the simple DIY bushing mods. Feel free to reach your own conclusions

As an engineer I cannot see any suspension function reason for clamping the poly (or whatever) bushings when you'd really rather have the poly rotate freely inside the brackets about sleeves held fast in the brackets (just like the OE design - minus, of course, the metal to bushing bonding).

Yes, I realize that water intrusion is somewhat more likely. But a zerk, a few grease channels on the ID of the poly, and the periodic re-lubing that these things tend to need anyway will take care of that. The bolt inside the sleeve still won't get any wetter (so it isn't compromised, though you could pack the sleeve with lube just for a little extra insurance), and never mind that poly bushings should properly be considered "wear parts" anyway.


Norm

 

[Sharad]

Bought a set of UPR control arms a few weeks back and got them installed last weekend (13 days ago). Ever since, the car has experienced a clunk when going over big bumps. Smooth roads it's fine, but big bumps it sounds horrible.

Tried several things, from zip tying the brake lines to the control arm, cutting the bump stops (I also lowered the car at the same time), and neither worked.

Friday, a friend of mine and I took a drive down a known bumpy road to see if he could figure it out. Was definitely predominate from the rear driver side. Parked the car, I laid under it while he rocked the car front to back. Found that the axle side of the lower control arm is shifting about 1.5mm from front to back.

We got back home and jacked up the car, took the wheel off, and removed the LCA bolt. Found that the oem bolt is a stepped design from 14mm down to ~12.5mm, however the steel tool pin that UPR uses is a 14mm full diameter ID. This is causing the control arm to almost torque when on a bump.

Anyone else ever had this problem? Trying to source a replacement bolt, but it's harder than I expected to find out exactly like the OEM bolt but without the step.

UPR LCAs work with the stock bolts. There should not be 1.5mm movement with the arms bolted on. Are you the original owner of the car? Any way to confirm that the correct factory bolts were in there?

I re-used the stock bolts and have never had a clunk.

Same here.

More than hypothesis at this point.

Your "bolted joint" goes bolt head/bracket side/poly/other bracket side/nut, with the inner sleeve doing little more than keeping the hole in the poly round. It's supposed to go bolt head/bracket side/inner sleeve/other bracket side/nut, though I don't think any of the mfrs of poly-bushed control arms ever tell people that.

Remember that lube that you smeared on the poly faces? That's where you're getting the easy motion from, and you're sliding the joint until everything does come up hard against the bolt . . . that 1.5mm (give/take) is consistent with the dimensions given.

This kind of joint is supposed to maintain its position by steel-on-steel friction, developed from clamp load through the stack of pieces being clamped (just like you'd clamp three pieces of wood together to hold them in the same relative positions). Wasting every bit of torque trying to compress the poly is obviously getting you nowhere, because as soon as the poly slips (rotationally) due to suspension movement over bumps it is entirely free to slide fore/aft and clunk.


Norm

Highly, extremely unlikely that the sleeve was deformed..

You'd snap the bolt in combined torsion plus tension long before you'd reach compressive yield in the inner sleeve, and the sleeve is way too short for it to buckle in pure compression (especially since the sleeve is laterally supported all around its circumference and along its length by the poly or Delrin).

The usual situation is that the non-OE bushings are supplied longer than the sleeves. Seen it several times.


Norm

I'm going to have to measure my mine sometime. I don't remember my pins being sunken in.

Norm, are you trying to say that "lowest bidder" parts houses didn't properly research the design, and are using the wrong parts in their fabrications? Say it isn't so... ;-)

Caveat Emptor, TANSTAAFL, etc.

^^kinda sounds like an insult.

UPR's tig welded chrome-moly control arms with Energy Suspension bushings are very durable and well made. Here's a picture one of our customers shared recently. He removed one of our competitors' very popular LCAs and upgraded to UPR control arms. IMO, you can see the difference in quality. (not to mention that we have track results to back up our claims of durability & performance)

 

[SoundGuyDave]

^^kinda sounds like an insult.

UPR's tig welded chrome-moly control arms with Energy Suspension bushings are very durable and well made. Here's a picture one of our customers shared recently. He removed one of our competitors' very popular LCAs and upgraded to UPR control arms. IMO, you can see the difference in quality. (not to mention that we have track results to back up our claims of durability & performance)

Easy there, Hoss... You may want to go back and read what I was commenting on before you jump the gun. The specific discussion was "bushings," not arms, assemblies, or anything else.

 

[Sharad]

Easy there, Hoss... You may want to go back and read what I was commenting on before you jump the gun. The specific discussion was "bushings," not arms, assemblies, or anything else.

That's why I said "kinda".

The part I added at the end was relevant to the thread. At least I thought it was.

 

[fun4me]

Yeah, I cant see those sleeves being easily deformed.