New tune lower numbers

[ebrow21]

A couple of suggestions.

Cody (Stang-Hi) posts STD numbers, and the car was probably cool/cold when that number was run. It was over a 20hp difference STD/SAE when my old nitrous 3v car was tuned by Cody, and I made nowhere near 604hp. I would also imagine that was a hero run. If I remember right, JMS uses SAE numbers.

I spoke to (and raced) the previous owner when the car was out at a local meet. I ended up talking to him about the car a good bit. If I remember right, the Whipple was put on when the car was purchased new. Meaning, it has almost 100k miles on it, and its a Gen I. Also, the built motor had around 30k miles. The guy used the car daily and on long trips without a hiccup, but he didn't do any updates to the car either.

Looking at the heat exhanger system was my suggestion then to him, and I agree with everyone above that it will help your car immensely. That pump has been working for 100k miles, I wouldn't imagine it can be as efficient as new. The belt, tensioner, etc. all have at least 30k miles as well, unless they're something you've replaced since purchase.

Just based on what a low boost Whipple does on my Coyote, I would imagine you see 200+ degree IATS if you romp down hard on that thing in the heat.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Just based on what a low boost Whipple does on my Coyote, I would imagine you see 200+ degree IATS if you romp down hard on that thing in the heat.

Fun fact.

Under perfect conditions (not possible) every psi that you compress air will get you 9.8deg in heat rise. But screw blowers are not “perfect conditions”. With a screw blower every psi raises the blower discharge temps 12.5deg when it is in its efficiency range. You get more heat rise when it is outside of its efficiency range (15,000+rpm).

So if you are making 18psi, which is about the most you will get out of a 2.3L Whipple compressing the air raises the discharge temps about 235deg. Then you need to add your blower inlet temps (roughly what your underhood temps are) which on a well ventilated car are about 20 deg over ambient. So on a 80deg day you are looking at 100deg inlet temps.

Add the 100deg inlet temps to the 235deg discharge temps and you are playing around at over 300deg! This is of course before the intercooler, but that is making the intercooler do a LOT of work considering the ECU starts pulling timing at 136deg.

Also keep in mind that the manifold gets heat soaked by the cylinder heads (200ish deg) and in part the valley of the motor.

It’s amazing that these cars can be made to run at anything resembling “cool”.

 

[BruceH]

Wouldnt a faster pump make the IC fluid spend less time in the heat exchanger therefor cooling it less?

You can do a killer chiller with a bigger IC resi. If you dont mind the a/c taking a small hit, it's the best cooling mod for the IC fluid. I personally wouldnt do a KC even though i have one. Nothing better than ICE cold a/c

If you search the subject a thread will come up where Jason gmitch describes the testing he did on this subject. It's very good data and the conclusion was that more water = more cooling.

There are a lot of things repeated on the internet that just aren't factual. Almost always they are repeated by people who have no real experience with the subject at hand but they just repeat the bad info anyway.

 

[07stage1]

What are the upper and lower pulley sizes. You need to figure out exactly what blower speed you are running before you take another step. Guessing won't do you any good. I doubt you are spinning it over 18,000rpm (Whipple's suggested top speed) with a Steeda belt drive kit. I didn't think they made them to spin that fast. I could be wrong though.


That belt shouldn't be slipping. Those Steeda kits are pretty good. There is something to get corrected there.


I think you meant bigger. A bigger pulley, if not a LOT bigger isn't going to do crap for heat soak. You need a better heat exchanger/pump.


About exactly what you are making.



Yeah, put an Afco pro series heat exchanger on it and at least a Meziere 20gpm pump. If not a 55gpm pump.

A good friend of mine is set up almost exactly like you and when he was running the older big Afco and the Whipple water pump it would vaporize the water while it was inside the intercooler. Which is obviously no good. You need cooler water (bigger heat exchanger) and to be moving it through the system faster (bigger pump). My friends car went from making full power for about half a run to running reasonably cool for a screw blower by going with a big heat exchanger and a 55gpm pump. It is a completely different car.

As far as making power goes you are making normal power (aside from the few people with fantasy “hero run” dyno graphs). You are being restricted by the Whipple elbow, throttle body size and CAI/MAF size. My buddies car was running exactly like yours until he gutted/ported the blower elbow, put a 72mm L&M throttle body on it and went with a 123mm CAI/MAF. The car picked up a little over 50hp.

my upper pulley is 2 7/8" lower is 7 3/8" measured the lower best i could on the car
where can i find out how many rpms im turning with this pulley combo

Monte said the belt started slipping at 6500rpms
maybe the tensoner is weak and needs to be replaced?

i did mean to say bigger pulleys

car made 577hp 563tq

i have the l&m 72 mm tb and also have the jpc monster intake and elbow with the larger maf so airflow isint an issue

 

[07stage1]

A couple of suggestions.

Cody (Stang-Hi) posts STD numbers, and the car was probably cool/cold when that number was run. It was over a 20hp difference STD/SAE when my old nitrous 3v car was tuned by Cody, and I made nowhere near 604hp. I would also imagine that was a hero run. If I remember right, JMS uses SAE numbers.

I spoke to (and raced) the previous owner when the car was out at a local meet. I ended up talking to him about the car a good bit. If I remember right, the Whipple was put on when the car was purchased new. Meaning, it has almost 100k miles on it, and its a Gen I. Also, the built motor had around 30k miles. The guy used the car daily and on long trips without a hiccup, but he didn't do any updates to the car either.

Looking at the heat exhanger system was my suggestion then to him, and I agree with everyone above that it will help your car immensely. That pump has been working for 100k miles, I wouldn't imagine it can be as efficient as new. The belt, tensioner, etc. all have at least 30k miles as well, unless they're something you've replaced since purchase.

Just based on what a low boost Whipple does on my Coyote, I would imagine you see 200+ degree IATS if you romp down hard on that thing in the heat.

yea it is a gen 1 whipple and was rebuilt when the motor was rebuilt and probably has 40k miles on motor and blower

yea im gonna look into bigger heat exchanger, bigger ic resivoir and i have a new bosch ic pump but will look into the mzere also

 

[07stage1]

JMS dyno graph

 

[jpac811]

Subd. Good info on here. Im also trying to make some power out of 2.3L equipped 3v.

 

[Department Of Boost]

my upper pulley is 2 7/8" lower is 7 3/8" measured the lower best i could on the car
where can i find out how many rpms im turning with this pulley combo

The equation is lower size divided by upper size times engine speed.

At 6,000rpm you have a blower speed of 15,391rpm.

At 7,000rpm you have a blower speed of 17,956rpm.

Whipples suggested maximum RPM is 18,000rpm so if you are spinning the motor to 7,000rpm you are there.

Monte said the belt started slipping at 6500rpms
maybe the tensoner is weak and needs to be replaced?

I’m not saying he is wrong. But your dyno graph doesn’t look like you have a slipping belt.

Do yourself a favor and get a Dayco belt tension gauge part number 93866. They are cheap and it will tell you if you have enough belt tension.

If you don’t have enough tension, which you probably don’t. The Steeda tensioners are on the weak side. You can replace it with one that has a stiffer spring. It is Dayco part #89426. This is the one we run on all of our 10 rib belt drives and they work great.

If you put a new belt on make sure you break it in correctly. A incorrectly broken in belt will be 30% more likely to slip. I got this from the Dayco engineers.

car made 577hp 563tq

With the big inlet and TB it should be making more than that. 610-625 is more like it on 93 octane.

 

[07stage1]

The equation is lower size divided by upper size times engine speed.

At 6,000rpm you have a blower speed of 15,391rpm.

At 7,000rpm you have a blower speed of 17,956rpm.

Whipples suggested maximum RPM is 18,000rpm so if you are spinning the motor to 7,000rpm you are there.


I’m not saying he is wrong. But your dyno graph doesn’t look like you have a slipping belt.

Do yourself a favor and get a Dayco belt tension gauge part number 93866. They are cheap and it will tell you if you have enough belt tension.

If you don’t have enough tension, which you probably don’t. The Steeda tensioners are on the weak side. You can replace it with one that has a stiffer spring. It is Dayco part #89426. This is the one we run on all of our 10 rib belt drives and they work great.

If you put a new belt on make sure you break it in correctly. A incorrectly broken in belt will be 30% more likely to slip. I got this from the Dayco engineers.




With the big inlet and TB it should be making more than that. 610-625 is more like it on 93 octane.

Whats the correct way to break in a belt? Amd where could I find a good 10 rib belt?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Whats the correct way to break in a belt?

Like brake pads or a good pair of boots the belt needs to be broken in correctly for best performance. If you do not break the belt in you risk belt slippage and a shorter belt life. To correctly break the belt in start the car and let it idle for about 5min (you can go over 5min). This 5min break in will get the belt up to temp. Once it is up to temp you want to let the belt sit until it is at room temperature. Once the belt cools back down the break in procedure is completed. If you have a spare belt (you should have on in your trunk as well as the tools to change it) break that one in too before storing it away. If you have to change belts on the side of the road or on the dyno you don’t want to wait on the break in procedure.

Amd where could I find a good 10 rib belt?

Well, if you have the same belt that my friends Steeda belt kit has (I think you have the same kit) there is only one belt that will fit. The Dayco 5100518. That is a 51.8" 10 rib belt.

I used to run this exact belt on my Kenne Bell. With the right tension they last pretty good. You should be able to get 2500+mi out of them.

I can't find it in a Gates Fleetrunner in that size (best belt period). If you can find one, get one.

 

[07stage1]

Like brake pads or a good pair of boots the belt needs to be broken in correctly for best performance. If you do not break the belt in you risk belt slippage and a shorter belt life. To correctly break the belt in start the car and let it idle for about 5min (you can go over 5min). This 5min break in will get the belt up to temp. Once it is up to temp you want to let the belt sit until it is at room temperature. Once the belt cools back down the break in procedure is completed. If you have a spare belt (you should have on in your trunk as well as the tools to change it) break that one in too before storing it away. If you have to change belts on the side of the road or on the dyno you don’t want to wait on the break in procedure.




Well, if you have the same belt that my friends Steeda belt kit has (I think you have the same kit) there is only one belt that will fit. The Dayco 5100518. That is a 51.8" 10 rib belt.

I used to run this exact belt on my Kenne Bell. With the right tension they last pretty good. You should be able to get 2500+mi out of them.

I can't find it in a Gates Fleetrunner in that size (best belt period). If you can find one, get one.

Is there a chart for how much tension the belt should have

 

[Department Of Boost]

Is there a chart for how much tension the belt should have

Measured with the gage 20lbs/rib. So a 10 rib belt should measure 200lb on the gage. This is slightly over-tensioned but we/you/I'm using a 10 rib belt for something that should have a 12 or 14 rib belt.

 

[07stage1]

Thanks for all the info
It is greatly appreciated