panhand bar turn bias and front sway bar end links counter adjust ?

[Sartol]

Is it possible to tune the Panhand bar turn bias by counter adjusting your front swaybar end links? Been going back and forth between panhard bar or watt link for the 2015 season. Going to start upgrading my 3 link in the back with BMR control arms with QA1 rod ends and relocation brackets for the dropped suspension. I need to center my rear axle and get the rear end to start acting like it should with the drop, its time.

Where I might fail with this idea is the panhard bar is affected my the weight transfer of the rear when creating the bias turn and the front is affect my the weight transfer of the front when turning when trying to counter adjust the swaybars end link. May be a noob question and I may be in way left field with this one. Trying to think outside the box, thoughts?

Watt link is on the list but may be down the road , waiting on rivals to come back in my size this spring first.

 

[Sky Render]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But I will say that with a good panhard bar running stiffer bushings or--even better--rod ends, your lateral deflection will be minimal. The tire carcass deforms more under lateral loads than a good panhard bar does.

There are many who will disagree with me and debate this, however.

 

[sheizasosay]

I get what your saying. I remember when I was reading through the Steeda instructions on the swaybar endlinks and it said this:

"Some advantage may be gained on tracks that are dominated by turns in one direction. When you have adjusted
your car’s suspension to achieve the best lap times, for those tracks that are biased with turns in one direction
rotate the end link adjusting sleeve approximately 1⁄4 to 1⁄2 turns to lengthen the end link for the outside tire. For
right hand dominate tracks, lengthen the left end link and opposite for left hand turn tracks. By lengthening the
end link you will increase the corner weight on that side and generate a small improvement in traction. This will
not cure a poor suspension setup, but it can help the driver pick up a few tenths a lap."

Edit- I'm not gonna give you advice on setting up for autocross. There are plenty here that do that. I don't. I PERSONALLY would resolve the lateral location issue and then go from there. But I don't know your parameters. Good luck.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

No, you can not balance the panhard with the front sway bar. It's possible I suppose, but the other problems it could cause with the front end do not seem worth it.

You can alter the turn bias by running the panhard at different angles but at that point it is likely way easier to go with a watts link.

 

[jmauld]

The panhard contributes different to the handling based on which way you turn. In one direction, the roll center lowers, and in the other direction the roll center rises, once the car is loaded in the turn.

The only way to stop this is to use springs that are so stiff that the car doesn't lean, or replace the panhard with a watts link.

The way that I understand it, to minimize the negative effects of the panhard, you want to make sure that it is level (horizontal) at your ride height.

 

[Whiskey11]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But I will say that with a good panhard bar running stiffer bushings or--even better--rod ends, your lateral deflection will be minimal. The tire carcass deforms more under lateral loads than a good panhard bar does.

There are many who will disagree with me and debate this, however.

The issue isn't entirely the lateral displacement although that contributes to an uneasyness in the rear axle over bumps that a Watts link doesn't seem to have issues with.

The biggest issue is the planting/unplanting of tires based on the direction you turn. It is less noticeable the stiffer the car gets but it is definitely there. I don't think there is much to debate honestly, a watts IS more expensive but it pays for itself.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But I will say that with a good panhard bar running stiffer bushings or--even better--rod ends, your lateral deflection will be minimal. The tire carcass deforms more under lateral loads than a good panhard bar does.

There are many who will disagree with me and debate this, however.

I think what he might be getting at is to use sta-bar preloading to generate an asymmetry in the opposite direction to what rise/fall in the PHB's midpoint already causes.

I'm not at all sure which way you'd want to do such preloading, because the PHB midpoint affects both roll center height and roll steer. Best to find out by skidpad and slalom testing.


Norm

 

[Sartol]

Thanks for the in put everyone. Was trying to way over think a small thing, I do plan on going watt link down the road. Right now my rear roll steer is badly off do to no relocation brackets on control arms and stock PHB with my drop. Wanna fix that first then go back to seat time with entering and exiting hair pins , 90 turns and decreasing radius turns. I know I lose time their just on the way I attack those points and opening the throttle back up on the apex. UCA are shot and rear is starting to un settle in slaloms where before I could use 75% throttle and steer through them. But we have been putting some mind game courses with slalom being odd to enter and short in between. I told myself I would put a little in the car every season , learn the setup as is and move on and bump up. Rear end is this year and bigger front tires ( stupid budget cut choose)