Question about my car on the bottle

[VanWilder]

Well last week I took my car out to give my brother in law a ride it in on the bottle...I just recently filled the bottle and my pressure was about 1270psi cold...so I was assuming I would be fine to run it and spray without needing my heater on...before going I purged it a little to get the pressure down to around 1000 because I've heard much over 1100 could give me a some pretty lean conditions...anyway we did the hit from 2nd through 4th and I wasn't impressed at all...mind you I'm running full bolt ons, cams, etc with a Zex 100 shot....could this be due to me not having my bottle heater on and losing pressure too fast...with the heater on will it be a whole new story?! Sorry for all the questions I'm new to the nitrous game and figured a 100 shot would give me a significant jump in power

 

[TheKurgan]

1000psi is fine. Actually I would say you purged alot of nitrous if you purged out nearly 300psi. You should of definitely felt the power. You sure you got the right jets in ?

 

[VanWilder]

1000psi is fine. Actually I would say you purged alot of nitrous if you purged out nearly 300psi. You should of definitely felt the power. You sure you got the right jets in ?

Positive on the Jets...at least I got the ones ZEX says to put in for the 100 shot...do you not think it had anything to do with the bottle being cold?! I only purged it for maybe a second if not less

also just to clarify my pressure was so high because we overfilled the bottle by about 1.5lbs.

 

[joedls]

You only heat the bottle to raise pressure. If your pressure is at 1000 PSI after your purge, you should be fine. Have you checked your AFR with the jetting you have? Zex standard jetting may or may not be appropriate for your car.

 

[james432]

900-1100 is where i run mine

 

[VanWilder]

You only heat the bottle to raise pressure. If your pressure is at 1000 PSI after your purge, you should be fine. Have you checked your AFR with the jetting you have? Zex standard jetting may or may not be appropriate for your car.

I will be getting it on the dyno soon to make sure A/F is perfect just been tight on the funds lately...my tune wrote by Chris Rose should be around 11.7:1 according to him...but I need to strap it down to make sure...the reason I was asking about the heater was that during that pull from about 45-115 I went from 1000 to 800 pretty quickly

 

[joedls]

I will be getting it on the dyno soon to make sure A/F is perfect just been tight on the funds lately...my tune wrote by Chris Rose should be around 11.7:1 according to him...but I need to strap it down to make sure...the reason I was asking about the heater was that during that pull from about 45-115 I went from 1000 to 800 pretty quickly

I don't believe the heater will have any effect during your run.

Unless the tune was written with those jets during the tuning you won't really know how close you are to your optimal AFR.

 

[psfracer]

I personally have a hard time believing you actually had 1270 psi with a cold bottle. When I used to run nitrous, a cold bottle usually meant around 800-900 psi at the most. When I would push it to 1100 psi or so, a full bottle would feel normal to the touch (not cold, but not warm either).

 

[VanWilder]

I personally have a hard time believing you actually had 1270 psi with a cold bottle. When I used to run nitrous, a cold bottle usually meant around 800-900 psi at the most. When I would push it to 1100 psi or so, a full bottle would feel normal to the touch (not cold, but not warm either).

Well I dont mean cold to the touch...sorry I was just refering to it as not having any heat to it other than the temperature in the trunk...I would say it was probably room temperature...also my bottle was extra full...after filling it it weighed in at 27.2lbs and I believe full is like 24.8lbs or something like that...without the heater on it was getting to almost 1300psi so I would purge it until my gauge read 970 or so and within probably 5 minutes maybe less it was getting back up there to 1200 +...I did that prolly twice even before the final purge before I ran it

 

[GrabberblueS197]

Well I dont mean cold to the touch...sorry I was just refering to it as not having any heat to it other than the temperature in the trunk...I would say it was probably room temperature...also my bottle was extra full...after filling it it weighed in at 27.2lbs and I believe full is like 24.8lbs or something like that...without the heater on it was getting to almost 1300psi so I would purge it until my gauge read 970 or so and within probably 5 minutes maybe less it was getting back up there to 1200 +...I did that prolly twice even before the final purge before I ran it

Actualy from my nitrous experience if you lose pressure you lose power, Also you should really try getting a tune for it, the fuel jets on the system might be a little conservative and probably a little rich I ran a dynotune system and actualy used a smaller fuel jet than recomended cause the recomended jets would make my whole car stink like fuel after my run... I also ran with out a bottle heater for a while and had alot of dissapointments. Spend the 100$ it's worth it. And a tune

 

[VanWilder]

Actualy from my nitrous experience if you lose pressure you lose power, Also you should really try getting a tune for it, the fuel jets on the system might be a little conservative and probably a little rich I ran a dynotune system and actualy used a smaller fuel jet than recomended cause the recomended jets would make my whole car stink like fuel after my run... I also ran with out a bottle heater for a while and had alot of dissapointments. Spend the 100$ it's worth it. And a tune

I'll have to try a smaller fuel jet when on the dyno to see what it does for me...also I do have a bottle heater I just didnt have it on during my run...and i do have a tune for the nitrous written by Chris Rose of American Muscle...its basically my NA tune, which has been extensively perfected through numerous datalogs and tune revisions, with 3.5 degrees of timing removed...I do need to get it on a dyno though to make sure everything looks right

 

[VanWilder]

I don't believe the heater will have any effect during your run.

Unless the tune was written with those jets during the tuning you won't really know how close you are to your optimal AFR.

My NA tune is sitting right at 12.8:1 WOT and I that is the tune Chris Rose built my Nitrous tune from except he pulled 3.5 degrees of timing out of it. He told me my A/F should be somewhere around 11.7:1 WOT. I do have a AEM Uego Wideband in the car but didnt look at it the other night when I ran it...like I said before I need to get it on the dyno to see what everything is doing...I know I should probably get a dyno tune but I dont have the extra cash laying around to do that now especially when I can strap it to the dyno and datalog the various parameters Chris needs when I'm on the dyno and he can tweak it for free

 

[08gt4u]

if is as hot as it is here in miami your problem is the heat,specially if you had the bottle on the trunk for a while.i had the same problem the other day at the track in 100 degree weather.the heat in the trunk will bring my temperature up to 1200 psi in a couple of minutes of the car been parked, but if you did a purge of a couple of seconds till the gage settle i was really at 800 psi.

 

[joedls]

My NA tune is sitting right at 12.8:1 WOT and I that is the tune Chris Rose built my Nitrous tune from except he pulled 3.5 degrees of timing out of it. He told me my A/F should be somewhere around 11.7:1 WOT. I do have a AEM Uego Wideband in the car but didnt look at it the other night when I ran it...like I said before I need to get it on the dyno to see what everything is doing...I know I should probably get a dyno tune but I dont have the extra cash laying around to do that now especially when I can strap it to the dyno and datalog the various parameters Chris needs when I'm on the dyno and he can tweak it for free

I understand, but without checking the AFR while spraying you don't know how the jetting affects it. If the tune has already been sorted out, just datalog your AFR. Then you can adjust it with the jets. No need to get it tuned again.

 

[chopstix]

Since no one has pointed out the factor that is the biggest "eye opener" to me....why are you overfilling the bottle? It is called a 10# bottle for a reason. It is supposed to have 10# of nitrous in the bottle, not almost 13#. An empty 10# bottle is normally around 14.5# so full would be 24.5#. If the bottle is overfull you are reducing the amount of space in the bottle to create a pressure dome above the liquid. This is dangerous and could also cause premature rupture of the safety release disc.

Another thing is don't go off "seat of the pants" to determine how well something is performing. Some nitrous systems just dont "hit" very hard. On one of my old combos I was spraying a 400+ whp car with 150hp of nitrous, I had built the system so that the nitrous came in very softly. It came in so smooth a passenger in the car could not tell when it came in. Yet the car went from trapping 118mph in the 1/4 to 130+mph .

As many people have stated before it would be in your best interest to get the car in a controlled enviroment, (dyno, track, etc) and verify your current "tune".

P.S. pulling 3.5*of timing is not going to magically adjust your nitrous A/F ratio. It will just adjust the start the combustion process. You will adjust the nitrous A/F ratio by adjusting the fuel jet in your nitrous system.

 

[TheKurgan]

Are you sure your bottle is oriented properly ? If your psi dropped by 200 in just 2 gears you might be pulling compressed air instead of nitrous. Just a thought...

 

[chopstix]

with an overfilled bottle the pressure drop is due to the low volume of "pressure" above the liquid.

picture it as if the bottle is coughing instead of blowing the liquid out


p.s. clarifiction purposes only.......with a properly filled bottle there is no "air" in the bottle, only liquid nitrous and gaseous nitrous. "Air" implies outside atmosphere

 

[VanWilder]

Since no one has pointed out the factor that is the biggest "eye opener" to me....why are you overfilling the bottle? It is called a 10# bottle for a reason. It is supposed to have 10# of nitrous in the bottle, not almost 13#. An empty 10# bottle is normally around 14.5# so full would be 24.5#. If the bottle is overfull you are reducing the amount of space in the bottle to create a pressure dome above the liquid. This is dangerous and could also cause premature rupture of the safety release disc.

Another thing is don't go off "seat of the pants" to determine how well something is performing. Some nitrous systems just dont "hit" very hard. On one of my old combos I was spraying a 400+ whp car with 150hp of nitrous, I had built the system so that the nitrous came in very softly. It came in so smooth a passenger in the car could not tell when it came in. Yet the car went from trapping 118mph in the 1/4 to 130+mph .

As many people have stated before it would be in your best interest to get the car in a controlled enviroment, (dyno, track, etc) and verify your current "tune".

P.S. pulling 3.5*of timing is not going to magically adjust your nitrous A/F ratio. It will just adjust the start the combustion process. You will adjust the nitrous A/F ratio by adjusting the fuel jet in your nitrous system.

Thanks for the input man!! As I stated before I am very new to nitrous...and just to clarify I didnt know they put too much nitrous in the bottle until later on...I will soon get it to the track to see what kinda #s I can run as well as a dyno...so do you think part of my problem could be the overfilled bottle?! after the couple pulls I made I turned my heater on for awhile and my pressure got to a solid 970 or so so I'm assuming I have the correct amount of nitrous in it now and its not overfull anymore...

Are you sure your bottle is oriented properly ? If your psi dropped by 200 in just 2 gears you might be pulling compressed air instead of nitrous. Just a thought...

as far as the bottle being oriented correctly I believe it is...i have it mounted in the ZEX supplied brackets in the passenger side of the trunk with the valve pointing down...correct me if I'm wrong with any of this

 

[VanWilder]

I understand, but without checking the AFR while spraying you don't know how the jetting affects it. If the tune has already been sorted out, just datalog your AFR. Then you can adjust it with the jets. No need to get it tuned again.

where is the parameter located in livelink to datalog A/F

 

[TheKurgan]

p.s. clarifiction purposes only.......with a properly filled bottle there is no "air" in the bottle, only liquid nitrous and gaseous nitrous. "Air" implies outside atmosphere

Not doubting that, but I've taken a bottle in to get filled with 700psi in the bottle and hardly any nitrous comes out when opening the bottle up. Are you sure that's all 100% nitrous gas ?

as far as the bottle being oriented correctly I believe it is...i have it mounted in the ZEX supplied brackets in the passenger side of the trunk with the valve pointing down...correct me if I'm wrong with any of this

That's incorrect. Label up with valve pointing up.

where is the parameter located in livelink to datalog A/F

You have to select one of the analog inputs and a wideband conversion formula(either a default one, or put in a custom one). What kind of wideband do you have ?