**** SALEEN VI S/C how fast can you spin one ****

[circusboy]

I heard the limit of the saleen is 18#'s

The purpose of the overdrive crank is to bring the power in at a lower RPM so you don't have to spin the motor to the moon.

I'm running 2.75 pulley and 15% O.D. pulley, but i'm only spipnning to 6000 RPM.

numbers hopefully next week

 

[bmaxwell]

You are running yours on a paxton though?

 

[JPO8GT]

Thanks for the advice on the overdrive crank and I understand what you are saying on the accessories dragging the hp down.

But, I already have the 18% overdrive crank installed and all I have left in my build is what pulley is going to be used on it. Have been talking with Brenspeed about it and they recommend the 3.0 pulley and no less. I respect their words and have doubt they know what they are talking about. Have years of tuning and racing Mustangs with Saleen S/C.

18% overdrive, electric water pump and Thump tensioner and Saleen arm

I was just tring to get the opionins of others who have went down the same road on this and have ran their Saleen's to the Max. I have seen Saleen's making 600+ hp and 17 psi of boost on this forum.

Hey noticed your allready running the Thump R tensioner and gripper arm! All you need is th oem 8 rib ps pulley and a/c clutch pulley and you could call Peter at Thump R for the Saleen billet 8 rib pulley and billet idlers to match your tensioner and gripper plate you allready have the expensive part of 8 rib conversion it would be cheap t convert.
just a thought. Jamie

 

[tmcolegr]

2 items worth mentioning:

• I see you're still running the Saleen plastic 76mm idler pulley next to the PS pump. I can't believe it hasn't failed yet. I would upgrade that pulley to a steel or billet aluminum pulley.
• Does your Meziere electric H20 pump have the larger V10 5.5" idler to increase belt wrap on the S/C

 

[PNR Welding]

I was running the 2.75upper with the 18% lower. We made 600whp with that setup. Here is the thread on it. This was STD
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11883

That was in 40* weather also. We later on ported the blower and added the whipple monoblade throttle body on. Then we redynoed the car in 90* weather in the summer and made 610whp SAE. So im guessing we picked up a little from the porting and throttle body. I do remember the IATs were 170+ during the runs. If you decided to run this combo, I would recommend a meth setup for the IATs, and to keep those supercharger bearings happy. That much heat could cause problems.

I really am starting to love meth. I did some runs yesterday and my IATs started at 100* and by the end of the run it was 82*, running 13psi to 16psi. I wanted to see how much boost it would take to run 10.0s and it seems like 16psi and leaving at 3700.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Am I missing something. Isn’t the answer to the question of how fast it is efficient to spin the blower to a RPM#? For example, what does Saleen say the max RPM for the blower is? 14K, 16K? 18K? That is the number you need and you calculate what pulley(s) to run based on how fast you are spinning the motor.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to say its good for XXpsi when there are a ton of variables associated with what sort of boost it will make. Or worse yet what kind of HP its good for.

A simple calculation of at XX,XXXrpm the blower starts “chopping air”, IAT’s go up faster than boost (on whatever delta that would be) and that is as fast as I want to spin it. Calculate pulley sizes and run it. The blowers efficiency is not tied to the motor its on.

Or I’m a dumbass.

 

[JPO8GT]

Am I missing something. Isn’t the answer to the question of how fast it is efficient to spin the blower to a RPM#? For example, what does Saleen say the max RPM for the blower is? 14K, 16K? 18K? That is the number you need and you calculate what pulley(s) to run based on how fast you are spinning the motor.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to say its good for XXpsi when there are a ton of variables associated with what sort of boost it will make. Or worse yet what kind of HP its good for.

A simple calculation of at XX,XXXrpm the blower starts “chopping air”, IAT’s go up faster than boost (on whatever delta that would be) and that is as fast as I want to spin it. Calculate pulley sizes and run it. The blowers efficiency is not tied to the motor its on.

Or I’m a dumbass.[/QUOTE

18% crank is 7.75" ÷ 3.0" s/c pulley x 6500 engine rpm yields a s/c spin speed of 16,791 rpm

 

[SherrodMustang]

Hey noticed your allready running the Thump R tensioner and gripper arm! All you need is th oem 8 rib ps pulley and a/c clutch pulley and you could call Peter at Thump R for the Saleen billet 8 rib pulley and billet idlers to match your tensioner and gripper plate you allready have the expensive part of 8 rib conversion it would be cheap t convert.
just a thought. Jamie

Yeah I thought about running the 8 rib setup but was deterd from it when I found out all you could run was a 2.95 pulley with it. I was looking at making all I could from the setup and kept the 6 rib for the 2.75. Might need to look into it agian if all I can run is the 3.0 pulley with my setup.

2 items worth mentioning:

• I see you're still running the Saleen plastic 76mm idler pulley next to the PS pump. I can't believe it hasn't failed yet. I would upgrade that pulley to a steel or billet aluminum pulley.
• Does your Meziere electric H20 pump have the larger V10 5.5" idler to increase belt wrap on the S/C

Yeah still the plastic Saleen pulley, I really need to upgrade that pulley and would have if I went with the 8 rib kit. I guess I need to descide what I want to do with the S/C pulley.

The electric pump is the standard idler pulley, not the V10 5.5. The V10 will not fit with a 18% overdrive crank pulley. It is really close to hit as it sits now.

I was running the 2.75upper with the 18% lower. We made 600whp with that setup. Here is the thread on it. This was STD
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11883

That was in 40* weather also. We later on ported the blower and added the whipple monoblade throttle body on. Then we redynoed the car in 90* weather in the summer and made 610whp SAE. So im guessing we picked up a little from the porting and throttle body. I do remember the IATs were 170+ during the runs. If you decided to run this combo, I would recommend a meth setup for the IATs, and to keep those supercharger bearings happy. That much heat could cause problems.

I really am starting to love meth. I did some runs yesterday and my IATs started at 100* and by the end of the run it was 82*, running 13psi to 16psi. I wanted to see how much boost it would take to run 10.0s and it seems like 16psi and leaving at 3700.

Awesome numbers I got to say. It says in your build thread that you were running a 10% overdrive and a 2.75 pulley? Is that correct? I do think meth might be the way to go to keep the IATs down with the S/C spinning that fast, will see.

Am I missing something. Isn’t the answer to the question of how fast it is efficient to spin the blower to a RPM#? For example, what does Saleen say the max RPM for the blower is? 14K, 16K? 18K? That is the number you need and you calculate what pulley(s) to run based on how fast you are spinning the motor.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to say its good for XXpsi when there are a ton of variables associated with what sort of boost it will make. Or worse yet what kind of HP its good for.

A simple calculation of at XX,XXXrpm the blower starts “chopping air”, IAT’s go up faster than boost (on whatever delta that would be) and that is as fast as I want to spin it. Calculate pulley sizes and run it. The blowers efficiency is not tied to the motor its on.

Or I’m a dumbass.[/QUOTE

18% crank is 7.75" ÷ 3.0" s/c pulley x 6500 engine rpm yields a s/c spin speed of 16,791 rpm

I have been told that the max RPM a Saleen will handle is 17500 RPM's from Brenspeed. Does anybody have any info on this?

If that is true:
18% crank is 7.75" / 2.95" s/c pulley x 6500 = 17076 RPM (8 rib kit pulley)

18% crank is 7.75" / 2.87" s/c pulley x 6500 = 17552 RPM

18% crank is 7.75" / 2.80" s/c pulley x 6500 = 17991 RPM

18% crank is 7.75" / 2.75" s/c pulley x 6500 = 18318 RPM

Then a 2.87' pulley is where I need to be to run a MAX (17552 rpm) on the Saleen.

 

[SherrodMustang]

What size pulley is that in place of the Saleen extension arm? Maybe I can use it instead of the plastic pulley if it is the same size.

You can also see better at how close the 18% crank is too the water pump idler in this picture, not much room for a larger pulley.

 

[bmaxwell]

Am I missing something. Isn’t the answer to the question of how fast it is efficient to spin the blower to a RPM#? For example, what does Saleen say the max RPM for the blower is? 14K, 16K? 18K? That is the number you need and you calculate what pulley(s) to run based on how fast you are spinning the motor.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to say its good for XXpsi when there are a ton of variables associated with what sort of boost it will make. Or worse yet what kind of HP its good for.

A simple calculation of at XX,XXXrpm the blower starts “chopping air”, IAT’s go up faster than boost (on whatever delta that would be) and that is as fast as I want to spin it. Calculate pulley sizes and run it. The blowers efficiency is not tied to the motor its on.

Or I’m a dumbass.

I agree with you on this one. Just run as high boost you can before the IAT's get too high

 

[JPO8GT]

If you end up wanting to run 8 rib you could have Innovators West same company who made the 18% crank make you one they charge 125.00 ea. to make at any size you would like the billet idler to replace the plastic one is only 50 ish bucks from thumpr peter at thump r also has saleen s/c on a s197

THIS IS A PHOTO OF MY 8 RIB ITS REALY THE SAME AS SALEEN. you will notice I have the same 18% crank, tensioner and griper arm as you.

 

[SherrodMustang]

Can I replace these two??

 

[SherrodMustang]

If you end up wanting to run 8 rib you could have Innovators West same company who made the 18% crank make you one they charge 125.00 ea. to make at any size you would like the billet idler to replace the plastic one is only 50 ish bucks from thumpr peter at thump r also has saleen s/c on a s197

THIS IS A PHOTO OF MY 8 RIB ITS REALY THE SAME AS SALEEN.

What are we talking about for $125, the water pump pulley?

 

[JPO8GT]

What are we talking about for $125, the water pump pulley?

I added a pic, no not water pump pulley you can have them make any size super charger pulley in 8 or 6 rib that you desire for the saleen and they charge 125.00 to make so your not limited to a 2.95" in 8 rib.

 

[JPO8GT]

Can I replace these two??

yes you can use the original stock 90mm 6 rib idler from the passenger side to replace the plastic idler pulley on lower driver side.
or you could replace it with a PM-2090 90mm 8 rib for 55.00 if you plan to go 8 rib in future http://www.thumpracing.com/idler_pulleys.htm

 

[Stinkyone]

Be careful what you wish for. I'm on my 2nd engine, Get rid of the POS plastic pulley. Get a real good belt as well. I can do 530RWHP with a stock CS pulley and a V-10 WP pulley and a 3.2, key bpoint is good tensioner and real good belt. Have long tubes and stage II cams, and I'm right at 11.5 at 6500rpm, don't seem to be losing much at all. I'm sure with a 3.0 I could see 560 and then a in a month a new transmission. (I'm a automatic) You can see over 600 it's all about how much you want to spend. But it would be nice to know for sure at what rpm the series VI farts out. I'm not going to a 3.0, I'm tuned down at 501RWHP and thats enough for me, I'm thinking longjevity. But hope it all comes together for you. Good Luck!

 

[SherrodMustang]

aww... I see. What size pulley is that?

The other thing is I really don't know what size pulley is going on the car, I have the 2.75 pulley for the car. But have been told that is will overspin the S/C and I will need to got with a 3.0 pulley.

But now I see that I might could get away with atleast maybe a 2.87 and I need to replace the POS plastic pulley with a metal one.

 

[SherrodMustang]

Be careful what you wish for. I'm on my 2nd engine, Get rid of the POS plastic pulley. Get a real good belt as well. I can do 530RWHP with a stock CS pulley and a V-10 WP pulley and a 3.2, key bpoint is good tensioner and real good belt. Have long tubes and stage II cams, and I'm right at 11.5 at 6500rpm, don't seem to be losing much at all. I'm sure with a 3.0 I could see 560 and then a in a month a new transmission. (I'm a automatic) You can see over 600 it's all about how much you want to spend. But it would be nice to know for sure at what rpm the series VI farts out. I'm not going to a 3.0, I'm tuned down at 501RWHP and thats enough for me, I'm thinking longjevity. But hope it all comes together for you. Good Luck!

Yeah I need to get rid of that plastic pulley, I didnt think about it until I started getting comments on it. I have PM Brenspeed and ask if they could change it out for me before they dyno the car on Friday. Now I just need to descided what to do on the S/C pulley stays 6 rib or upgrade to the 8 rib setup and replace all the pulleys.

 

[SherrodMustang]

Maybe get them to replace the plastic pulley and dyno it with the 2.87 pulley for now.

I then could get a custom 8 rib pulley in 2.87 and all the upgraded pulleys in 8 rib. Time is going to be a factor now with the car and getting a custom made pulley in 8 rib. I have to get the car this week and need to get it tuned for what I will be running for a bit. As long as I have the tune setup for the 2.87 pulley I can upgrade all of it when I get the car back home and have time to wait on a custom pulley. I think that would be the way to go now, I really had no clue you could have them make a custom 8 rib pulley in a smaller size than 2.95! Good Info!

Main factor I was tring to understand is what size pulley to run to make the most power and not over spin the supercharger. Looks like the 2.87 is the way to go at 17552 rpms.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Maybe get them to replace the plastic pulley and dyno it with the 2.87 pulley for now.

You can also run a OEM steep pulley there with no ribs (which it looks like you probably have somewhere) and route the belt like this. I've been running mine like this forever.

Main factor I was tring to understand is what size pulley to run to make the most power and not over spin the supercharger. Looks like the 2.87 is the way to go at 17552 rpms.

Or you could set it up to over spin the blower a bit starting at lets say 5750-6000rpm which won’t kill power above that level but probably won’t make much more. Set up like that the blower will come in sooner in the rev range and give you more average power and hit harder. How much time are you spending above 5750-6000rpm anyway? The answer is not much with the kind of power you will be putting down.

I used to do the same kind of thing on my Terminator except I was over spinning the CRAP out of that little stock Eaton. It hit like a house falling on you, but flattened out after 5500rpm. No IAT issues. Yes they were hotter than if I weren’t spinning the blower so fast but nothing that was causing it to go dangerously hot or anything. And if I remember correctly I was torturing that little baby Eaton at 21,000rpm!