shorty headers, JBA vs BBK etc etc

[Jwood562]

So looking into finally upgrading the engine with some bolts on to my 2008 gt.

I already have a roush CAI, roush axle backs, tune and recently did under drive pullies.

Looking to do headers, high flow cats and mid pipe.

Living in CA my options are limited so needing CARB approved headers as I keep the car current and registered.

So looking at JBA cat4ward or BBK, pros or cons with either? I will probably be paying a shop to do the install. I am only speaking HP wise, fit and fitment etc etc.

I cannot find any solid youtube videos or posts on staight HP gains

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Here ya go:

https://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/content/exhshoot3.htm

This dyno shootout doesn't include the BBK shorties but you can expect the same 4rwhp from those as you'd get from the Ford Racing headers.
My dyno numbers were before and after installing JBA knock-off shorty headers with results similar to those obtained by AFM above. Torque gains down low were pretty good for such a simple upgrade.

 

[JC SSP]

I have BBK shorties on my 05' GT and I had no issues on the install or fitment (others have mentioned steering shaft contacting one of the tubes, gaskets leaking, whether to uses/studs or bolts, etc.). They give a nice sound and the HP increase is marginal.

I would have gone LT, but the price that I got them for new in the box it was a no-brainer.

 

[Pentalab]

Here ya go:

https://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/content/exhshoot3.htm

This dyno shootout doesn't include the BBK shorties but you can expect the same 4rwhp from those as you'd get from the Ford Racing headers.
My dyno numbers were before and after installing JBA knock-off shorty headers with results similar to those obtained by AFM above. Torque gains down low were pretty good for such a simple upgrade.

View attachment 86649

What TQ gain ?

 

[JC SSP]

Someone posted on another forum. BBK shorties. Avg of 4-5 hp, and 8lb ft of tq.

 

[AHaze]

Looking to do headers, high flow cats and mid pipe.

My understanding is there is zero benefit to "high flow" cats on a bolt on 3V. Long tube headers force you to swap the cats/mid pipe. The main reason to go with shortys is so you can keep the OE stuff behind them.

 

[MrBhp]

My understanding is there is zero benefit to "high flow" cats on a bolt on 3V. Long tube headers force you to swap the cats/mid pipe. The main reason to go with shortys is so you can keep the OE stuff behind them.

I've heard that same statement many times. However, when Triangle Speed had my car on the dyno, the best we could do with stock manifolds, cats, and Shelby x-pipe/exhaust was 294 at the tire. With high flow cats it did 304. With 1 3/4" long tubes and no cats it did 306 peak, but the curve was much better across the graph. My quarter mile time dropped way more than expected. The tuner said that the stock cats will sometimes cause a limit on total timing, pulling it back right when he is trying to add it.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Someone posted on another forum. BBK shorties. View attachment 86659 Avg of 4-5 hp, and 8lb ft of tq.

That was on an S197 3.7 V6 so there'll be a slight difference, but the torque gains in the lower midrange still hold true though.

My understanding is there is zero benefit to "high flow" cats on a bolt on 3V. Long tube headers force you to swap the cats/mid pipe. The main reason to go with shortys is so you can keep the OE stuff behind them.

Yes, shorty headers allow you to either keep the stock cats or to install high flow cats in the stock location. Since the O2 sensors also remain in the stock location, there's no need to revise the tune.
The difference on the dyno between good healthy stock cats and high flow cats, with all else being equal, should be no more than 1-2hp.

I've heard that same statement many times. However, when Triangle Speed had my car on the dyno, the best we could do with stock manifolds, cats, and Shelby x-pipe/exhaust was 294 at the tire. With high flow cats it did 304.

I'd say your stock cats must have been plugged up to a degree 'cause a 10hp difference isn't normal.

 

[JC SSP]

Ahhhh ok saw in another forum under mustang GT. Thx for catching that.

what’s interesting, I calculated 5HP increase on my 05’ GT. Lol

 

[Jwood562]

My understanding is there is zero benefit to "high flow" cats on a bolt on 3V. Long tube headers force you to swap the cats/mid pipe. The main reason to go with shortys is so you can keep the OE stuff behind them.

good to know, not replacing the cats will save me some dough.

What about any other part of the exhaust after the cats, like an x pipe?

 

[Jwood562]

Also thanks for all the input everyone.

Dino, i have been studying your build specs closely. thank you again

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

What about any other part of the exhaust after the cats, like an x pipe?

A cut n' clamp X-pipe that replaces the H of the stock mid-pipe will produce a slightly more aggressive exhaust note under acceleration plus a very small power gain. Some will say the exhaust becomes raspy but mine has no rasp whatsoever, and it could be because I have stock GT/CS mufflers.

Dino, i have been studying your build specs closely. thank you again

They've all been pretty simple, inexpensive mods really. My aim was to address the car's deficiencies to make it how it could have come from the factory.

 

[Pentalab]

That was on an S197 3.7 V6 so there'll be a slight difference, but the torque gains in the lower midrange still hold true though.



Yes, shorty headers allow you to either keep the stock cats or to install high flow cats in the stock location. Since the O2 sensors also remain in the stock location, there's no need to revise the tune.
The difference on the dyno between good healthy stock cats and high flow cats, with all else being equal, should be no more than 1-2hp.



I'd say your stock cats must have been plugged up to a degree 'cause a 10hp difference isn't normal.

HI-flow cats are typ the same as no cats at all. Hi-flow cats are typ 4" diam..and shorter. Think of it as more parallel paths with the bigger diam hi-flow cats.

IF one cat was partially clogged up..... you would see it right away on the OBD...which measures cat temps on each side. A clogged up cat has one helluva lot higher temp.

 

[Jwood562]

I love when things have a way of working themselves out. cruising a local for sale forum and found a brand new set of bbk shorties, ceramic coated. great priced already, threw him an offer and he took it, picking them up monday.

 

[MasterofDisaster]

I installed BBK ceramic coated shorties a couple years ago. Hasn't made a detectable change in mileage. They definitely lower the underhood temps. The sound isn't louder, but it's a little more staccato.

 

[Jwood562]

thank you for all the help especially the dyno results. I ended up picking up a set of BBK ceramic coated for a steal on offer up.

my local mustang pro shop quoted me $650 to install, is that normal or too much?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

thank you for all the help especially the dyno results. I ended up picking up a set of BBK ceramic coated for a steal on offer up.

my local mustang pro shop quoted me $650 to install, is that normal or too much?

Estimated installation time is about 6 hours so $650 labor is within expectation.

 

[AHaze]

Estimated installation time is about 6 hours so $650 labor is within expectation.

Seriously? I swear the people who determine "book time" do so by timing a 9th grade shop class student with an incomplete socket set. I just installed a set of long tubes in a friend's '14 GT in just over 4 hours without a lift or any previous experience working on Coyotes.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Seriously? I swear the people who determine "book time" do so by timing a 9th grade shop class student with an incomplete socket set.

Yeah I reckon you're right.
Shop rates can vary quite a bit so it pays to get multiple estimates if you can't DIY.