Supercharger advice

[Department Of Boost]

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[JG-1]

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Replied in the quote.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Replied in the quote.

"As much as possible" is going to be limited by 93 octane, intake air temps and not much else. You will run out of octane LONG before you start stretching out most blowers. So really, blower choice (the head unit) is mostly irrelevant. They are all going to perform so close to each other that you may as well pick the one you think looks the best.

The 2.9L Whipple is massive overkill for 93 octane. The 2.3L TVS based stuff is a much better choice simply because it gets's the job done with PLENTY of room to spare and costs a whole lot less money.

So now that the head unit isn't a critical choice what do you do? To get as much power as possible on 93 you need to reduce cylinder pressure as much as possible (boost). You do this with big ass headers, big ass off road exhaust and a big ass "cat back". 1 7/8" headers into 3" exhaust is what I would do. This will drop boost so you can increase blower speed (which will make more power) while still remaining under the 10.5ish psi 93 octane limit. Next step would be some cams. Next step after that would be ported heads.

What your choice comes down to as far as what kit you go with comes down to cooling IMO. Keeping intake air temps down (IAT's) is going to effect your real world HP numbers more than anything else. I'm about to plug my stuff here.....

If you were to run one of my GT550 manifolds with a 13' GT500 TVS, good water pump and good heat exchanger it will make the exact same power that the other TVS (when equipped with the same water pump and heat exchanger) will make but it will make that power a lot more of the time simply because the IAT's will be so much lower. It won't show up on a dyno run, they're too short and too controlled. But in real life it's a big difference.

If you go with a GT550 manifold and build your own kit around it you will end up running cooler and you will end up with less money in it because they're a good deal to start with, and you only buy the parts you want once. Not like when you buy a kit and start replacing stuff like injectors, water pumps, heat exchangers, etc which has you paying for that stuff twice. The only down side to the GT550 is that you will be collecting all the parts yourself. If you want everything to show up in one box ready to go that's not going to be a direction you want to go.

 

[Fosters]

a supercharger, especially a PD style is super easy to install, no big piping to route around the engine, just bolt it ontop, extend any wiring you need, and run coolant lines which are a lot more reasonable than 3" pipe

I thought all PD blowers require some machining of the timing cover?

I will say the centris are a pain in the ass to pipe around; and Bruce is also right in saying there's a point of too much power for the street - it doesn't seem to be all that high.

With a paxton and a circle D 3C, traction is terrible in my case...

 

[Department Of Boost]

I thought all PD blowers require some machining of the timing cover?

Some kits yes, some no.

I will say the centris are a pain in the ass to pipe around;

Yes.

and Bruce is also right in saying there's a point of too much power for the street - it doesn't seem to be all that high.

I've always been a HP junkie. I raced Superbike for many years (200rwhp/365lb). My idea of "reasonable" is rather skewed. But after maturing a bit I agree with Bruce. I've had lots of time in 450-1000hp street S197's. And I think 550-575rwhp is the happy spot. It's plenty damn fast. You actually have to drive the car. It's also the point right before things start getting really expensive and the "Street Car That Is Fun To Drive All The Time"/ "Race Car" line. There is a certain point where it's not worth the time, aggravation, money, etc.

 

[46addict]

Livernois just posted this yesterday. I don't know if this is what you're looking for but it's an intercooled Magnuson TVS 2300 kit for $5k. Install & tune is offered for another $500. No cutting or modifying of the timing cover needed.

Link to kit:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP499103

Kit + installation & tune:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP0104914

 

[Fosters]

Livernois just posted this yesterday. I don't know if this is what you're looking for but it's an intercooled Magnuson TVS 2300 kit for $5k. Install & tune is offered for another $500. No cutting or modifying of the timing cover needed.

Link to kit:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP499103

Kit + installation & tune:
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP0104914

Damn that's a steal!

 

[05stroker]

I've always been a HP junkie. I raced Superbike for many years (200rwhp/365lb). My idea of "reasonable" is rather skewed. But after maturing a bit I agree with Bruce. I've had lots of time in 450-1000hp street S197's. And I think 550-575rwhp is the happy spot. It's plenty damn fast. You actually have to drive the car. It's also the point right before things start getting really expensive and the "Street Car That Is Fun To Drive All The Time"/ "Race Car" line. There is a certain point where it's not worth the time, aggravation, money, etc.

Yep!

 

[BruceH]

Yep!

I can't imagine what your car is like to drive in city traffic with the high stall.

When I had the 2.3 Whipple on a 4.6 making 599 it required a whole lot of focus when leaving a stop light. Any amount of throttle that would close the bypass valve would put 16psi from the twin screw into the motor instantly. Even at low rpms it triggered a whole lot of torque to the wheels which created unintentional wheelspin. Not a good thing for normal, in town driving when leaving a stoplight.

It was more focus (driving, as you call it) than I wanted to put into a trip to the store or work.

My current motor with a M122 and 7psi making almost the same power was far easier to drive in traffic because it wasn't slamming 16psi into the motor at low rpms.

IMO a centri is the easiest to drive like a normal car (just drive, not have to focus as much) because the boost is rpm dependent so there just aren't as many surprises.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I can't imagine what your car is like to drive in city traffic with the high stall.

When I had the 2.3 Whipple on a 4.6 making 599 it required a whole lot of focus when leaving a stop light. Any amount of throttle that would close the bypass valve would put 16psi from the twin screw into the motor instantly. Even at low rpms it triggered a whole lot of torque to the wheels which created unintentional wheelspin. Not a good thing for normal, in town driving when leaving a stoplight.

It was more focus (driving, as you call it) than I wanted to put into a trip to the store or work.

My current motor with a M122 and 7psi making almost the same power was far easier to drive in traffic because it wasn't slamming 16psi into the motor at low rpms.

IMO a centri is the easiest to drive like a normal car (just drive, not have to focus as much) because the boost is rpm dependent so there just aren't as many surprises.

That's weird to me. I've never had an issue with that on any PD setup from 450-1000hp. I think they all drive like regular cars until you jump in them. Just yesterday I was driving a PD Coyote car with short gearing........with icy rain on the road. It was no big deal at all.

 

[BruceH]

That's weird to me. I've never had an issue with that on any PD setup from 450-1000hp. I think they all drive like regular cars until you jump in them. Just yesterday I was driving a PD Coyote car with short gearing........with icy rain on the road. It was no big deal at all.

At 13psi it wasn't a big deal at all. When I went to 16/17psi and a larger tb it was important to pay attention when leaving a stop. It crossed some sort of line for my setup and that line required a whole lot more attention to driving.

As you know the Whipple twin screw delivers all the boost as soon as the bypass closes because a twin screw is always compressing. The bypass closes as soon as vacuum drops which happens when enough air enters the motor. The larger tb allows more air to enter with less blade angle, reducing vacuum quicker than with a stock tb.

Take off from the stop with just a little too much throttle and it was instant wheel spin. I'm not saying I had to take off at idle, I'm saying that it wasn't like driving my pickup, etc. If for some reason I stabbed the throttle just a little too far it crossed the line and really looked like an asshole having a midlife crisis instead of someone driving home from work.

A centri with more power is much more traffic friendly because max boost isn't happening unless the rpms are higher. It's also not as fun on the street for the same reason.

Remember that I lived with the setup. It was driven to work on a daily basis in all weather. The commute is 15 miles one way of mostly urban driving with lots of stop and go. Lots of chances to accidentally stab the throttle.

The few times it happened were enough for me to realize that setup was more than I wanted. It's also where my own personal "fun car" line at 525-550rhwp for this car comes from, my own experiences with the car as a daily driver.

With all of that said the car is now a garage queen except for weekends. It may well be wearing a DOB setup in the next few months. I'm thinking that my current motor should handle 750 or so fairly easy and it shouldn't be that hard to get there with 12:1 compression. More to come on that.

 

[Marble]

That's weird to me. I've never had an issue with that on any PD setup from 450-1000hp. I think they all drive like regular cars until you jump in them. Just yesterday I was driving a PD Coyote car with short gearing........with icy rain on the road. It was no big deal at all.

Mine at near 600rwhp and 4500ish stall is very tame, except for the consistent 2nd gear chirp...

The tranny does run warm.

 

[Department Of Boost]

At 13psi it wasn't a big deal at all. When I went to 16/17psi and a larger tb it was important to pay attention when leaving a stop. It crossed some sort of line for my setup and that line required a whole lot more attention to driving.

As you know the Whipple twin screw delivers all the boost as soon as the bypass closes because a twin screw is always compressing. The bypass closes as soon as vacuum drops which happens when enough air enters the motor. The larger tb allows more air to enter with less blade angle, reducing vacuum quicker than with a stock tb.

Take off from the stop with just a little too much throttle and it was instant wheel spin. I'm not saying I had to take off at idle, I'm saying that it wasn't like driving my pickup, etc. If for some reason I stabbed the throttle just a little too far it crossed the line and really looked like an asshole having a midlife crisis instead of someone driving home from work.

A centri with more power is much more traffic friendly because max boost isn't happening unless the rpms are higher. It's also not as fun on the street for the same reason.

Remember that I lived with the setup. It was driven to work on a daily basis in all weather. The commute is 15 miles one way of mostly urban driving with lots of stop and go. Lots of chances to accidentally stab the throttle.

The few times it happened were enough for me to realize that setup was more than I wanted. It's also where my own personal "fun car" line at 525-550rhwp for this car comes from, my own experiences with the car as a daily driver.

With all of that said the car is now a garage queen except for weekends. It may well be wearing a DOB setup in the next few months. I'm thinking that my current motor should handle 750 or so fairly easy and it shouldn't be that hard to get there with 12:1 compression. More to come on that.

I wonder how much that has to do with the bypass valve. The Whipple stuff is usually their "race" bypass, so they hit harder. They do have more sedate options.

It may be a combination of things too. Like gearing. I tend to gear my stuff pretty high. I'm speculating that they aren't going to hit as hard as something geared "short". You're geared pretty short aren't you?

Were you using a single blade TB? I know the one time I used a single blade I found it really snatchy.

 

[BruceH]

I wonder how much that has to do with the bypass valve. The Whipple stuff is usually their "race" bypass, so they hit harder. They do have more sedate options.

It may be a combination of things too. Like gearing. I tend to gear my stuff pretty high. I'm speculating that they aren't going to hit as hard as something geared "short". You're geared pretty short aren't you?

Were you using a single blade TB? I know the one time I used a single blade I found it really snatchy.

IIRC I had 3.55 gears at the time with the TR-6060 transmission. I've had 3.55, 4.10, back to 3.55, back to 4.10, 4.56, and back to 4.10 over the 8 years I've owned the car so sometimes it's hard to remember.

I do know that the current 322 inch motor with 12:1, FRPP heads, etc. didn't have the issue with your DOB kit and a M122 making 7-8psi and just a little less power.

The TB was a FRPP 62mm. The tune had the stock commanded torque table, it was before I had calibrator status (calibrator status is needed to have access to the drive by wire parameters) and had just started learning about engine management. So I know I wasn't doing something stupid like commanding a bunch of torque at a low pedal position.

Anyway all I was doing was offering a perspective for the op that is based on my experiences. He has a lot of choices. In a way it's like sex, it's all good but some are better suited for his personal preference and driving style than others.

 

[Department Of Boost]

IIRC I had 3.55 gears at the time with the TR-6060 transmission. I've had 3.55, 4.10, back to 3.55, back to 4.10, 4.56, and back to 4.10 over the 8 years I've owned the car so sometimes it's hard to remember.

I do know that the current 322 inch motor with 12:1, FRPP heads, etc. didn't have the issue with your DOB kit and a M122 making 7-8psi and just a little less power.

The TB was a FRPP 62mm. The tune had the stock commanded torque table, it was before I had calibrator status (calibrator status is needed to have access to the drive by wire parameters) and had just started learning about engine management. So I know I wasn't doing something stupid like commanding a bunch of torque at a low pedal position.

Anyway all I was doing was offering a perspective for the op that is based on my experiences. He has a lot of choices. In a way it's like sex, it's all good but some are better suited for his personal preference and driving style than others.

I absolutely respect your input and point of view. I'm sorry if I came off combative. I really was just trying to discuss.

Another reason that I think "the hard hit" may not be a big thing for me is that I was desensitized to it over years of roadracing motorcycles. When you're trying to get 200hp on something that weighs 375# down through a contact patch the size of your hand while leaned over you develop a very, very fine touch when it comes to throttle application. And understand that just a bit too much will launch you into space most of the time resulting in broken bones upon landing. I'm probably just numb too it in a way. A hard hitting PD car is pretty tame in comparison.

As far as Centri blowers on street cars..........................they're just not my thing. I don't even like PD blowers on Yotes because they hit so soft and then build power because of the valves being hung open through the midrange. I think they feel soft. For a street car I like "diesel truck" torque. Clearly I'm partial to early hitting waves of monster torque.

 

[Wes06]

Woooooo torque!!!!
To bad I couldn't swing a big diesel for my truck....would have been bad as

Maybe I'll lose my mind and 12v turbo Cummins swap it later
Hah

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Received a quote from JPC for 11k, which includes a 2.9 whipple tuner kit, ID1000, fuel pump booster, iridium plugs, install and tune. The install and tune alone is $2800.

Other option I'm considering is the VMP stage 3. I can order for $7500 and have a shop around here do the install. I'd estimate the install price around 1k. And Justins kit comes with a tune already. So 11k vs $8500.

Is the JPC package worth the extra $2500?

PM'D you About another package option!

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Damn that's a steal!

1: PM sent

2: Steal is right! This is a limited time offer so if anyone is interested feel free to call or PM us and we can talk details!!!!!

 

[Wes06]

Yeah the kit is very nicely priced. And with how much a tune would be the tune+install for 500 is sweet, not having to wrestle it and cuss for a day or two because you lost a bolt or anything

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Yeah the kit is very nicely priced. And with how much a tune would be the tune+install for 500 is sweet, not having to wrestle it and cuss for a day or two because you lost a bolt or anything

pm sent!