Supercharger for Road Racing

[Department Of Boost]

On the front straight at Seattle, my highest IAT recorded were 118 degrees on a 89 degree day at 172mph.

That's amazing. The upgraded A2A IC seems like it was worth every penny.

Was the IC less effective at lets say 75mph and WOT?

 

[19COBRA93]

On the front straight at Seattle, my highest IAT recorded were 118 degrees on a 89 degree day at 172mph. On that day, my coolant temps were over 240. I did have Prochargers upgraded A2A though. On a comparable day, the IATs on my 07 GT500 with a small pulley was just over 200 degrees. Either way, both cars were pulling timing and losing HP. My 08 GT because the coolant temps were high and my GT500 because the IATs were high.

For drag racing, I would rather have an air to water. In that arena, cooling the water in the pits would be very beneficial. An air to air doesn't work well for drag racing because as we know, you need air speed across the intercooler for it to work. By the time the intercooler cooled the air, the run would be 1/2 over.

Where were you pulling the IAT reading from on your GT? The maf location, or secondary?

 

[sheizasosay]

Where were you pulling the IAT reading from on your GT? The maf location, or secondary?

The AC vent I think.


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[19COBRA93]

The AC vent I think.


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LOL.

 

[barbaro]

Very nice numbers, but Very peaky. Where's the torque? Only 378 lbs/ft ? And all the way up at 5600?

I can only speak for the Saleen S/C, but it makes 400+lbs/ft from 2500-6000 rpms. The flexibility from a flat torque curve like this cannot be denied. It's much easier to rocket out of the corners with this kind of torque.

I'm sure your car is amazingly fast, but IMHO, Horsepower is for marketing and Torque wins races.

This is a loaded dyno, Known around here as the humbler. On a Dynojet I have gone 410rwt/540rwhp, but I do not consider those numbers legit. Obviously, since it makes horsepower from RPM's rather than induction, it will not have the torque of a FI car. But to the point: Torque wins races? Who told you that? The opposite is true. If torque won races then diesel trucks would be winning Daytona. As for rocketing out of corners. Too much torque rocketing out of corners leads to ass coming around. I rocket out of corners at 4000 rpm to redline. Like A Ferrari. (the Torsen helps) This is a high rpm Grand touring screamer built for the track. Quarter mile in 11.7 on street tires. Can go lap after lap with no heat issues. I destroy Supercharged cars at the track with more torque. Making horsepower at high rpm allows you to take advantage of gearing. You shift at 6200 rpm. I shift at 7700 rpm with no fear of my engine falling apart. For example: I shift at 7700 rpm from 3rd to 4th, 4th gear rpms drop to about 5800-6000 rpm which is right at the engine's torque peak with 2000 rpm's to go. My flywheel is carrying a whole lot of energy. That is why I can blow away cars with more torque. Wise move on your part going with Cortex. I am putting in a Cortex torque Arm this month. Good luck to you. If you were out here I would invite you to the track and you could see for yourself.

 

[Marc s]

Where were you pulling the IAT reading from on your GT? The maf location, or secondary?

I had a Lighting IAT in the bottom of my intake manifold.

 

[Moochman4life]

Forgive me, here: I thought the standard for IAT sensor placement was as close to the throttle body as you can get it?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Only if you have a blow-through type system, like a turbo or a centrifugal. With the roots-type, the throttle body is upstream of the compressor, and will not reflect the actual air charge temp hitting the combustion chambers, which is what we're most concerned with. The ideal location is going to be somewhere after all the intercoolers.

 

[Moochman4life]

Ahhh. Hence, like Marc said: on the intake manifold. Makes sense. You usually experience the same thing with roots-type when trying to find injector spots for water-meth, too.

 

[19COBRA93]

I had a Lighting IAT in the bottom of my intake manifold.

It still doesn't add up. I saw a 20 degree increase just from moving the sensor to the intake from the maf location. So regardless of intercooler efficiency the iat's have to be hotter than what you were seeing simply because of the sensor location.

 

[NEMustang]

Thanks for all the posts in this thread...there is a wealth of information and advice here. I have decided to move forward with a used procharger unit from a member, Viperrmk. I just received everything and it was as advertised...thank you Ryan!

This is this year's "experiment". You will probably see all these components for sale at the end of the year when I move to a Coyote/Boss platform (please, no comments about saving my money...I'm too dumb and stubborn for that...). This will be a cautious (yeh, right) approach on Supercharging for Road Racing. Most of the horror stories seem to be based on higher than 10 boost levels, causing excessive IATs, thereby incurring excessive heat throughout the system.

How about these goals:

1. Run a Centri System, which, by most claims, will be more efficient in terms of heat soak due to placement.
2. Run 8-10 boost max - good for ~100 at the wheel. This is controlled my pulley size. However, a wastegate may be considered.
3. D-1SC unit vs P-1sc, which I understand makes more slightly boost at lower RPM, thereby reducing heat.
4. 3-Core - A2A intercooler
5. Boxing of intercooler and radiator for concentrated airflow
6. Splitter and additional custom belly pan for controlled airflow
7. Tiger Racing Super Louver hood for air extraction...I love this Carbon Fiber hood!!

I have:

D-1SC head unit
3.70 pulley - this will change
Stage II piping
3-core air-to-air inter cooler
Big Red Enclosed BOV
60# injectors
DiabloSport MAFia
Gatorback belt
DiabloSport Predator
GT500 Duel Fuel pumps

If anyone has these, I need Procharger pieces:

MF007A-007 / FAN SHROUD - 05 MUSTANG-BAGGED
AIFP1A-023 / DEGAS TANK - 07 MUSTANG-BLACK
Pulleys...4.13/4.00 for 8-rib

My 07 Mustang GT 4.6L currently has:

Tiger CF Hood
FRPP CAI
Steeda Inlet
Steeda UDP
FRPP Intake
CMDP,
Comp SPR 127500
Comp Phaser Limiters
Pypes Headers/X-off road
Moroso 7 qt Road Racing pan
SPAL 2360 CFM hi-perf fan
Tune 372hp/367tq N/A
I will be adding an oil cooler…haven’t chosen one yet.

Also, any other concerns and/or recommendations would be appreciated...other than "Don't do it!!"

 

[Moochman4life]

What are you looking for in terms of final numbers? Did you mention a built motor in there somewhere? The one area that stood out to me was the 60# injectors. It might be a small thing, but those might be overkill imo.

For what it's worth, I'm running 39 pounders and an A/F around 12, but I can't necessarily remember what size pulley. Either it's 3.33 or 3.60.

 

[zquez]

What are you looking for in terms of final numbers? Did you mention a built motor in there somewhere? The one area that stood out to me was the 60# injectors. It might be a small thing, but those might be overkill imo.

For what it's worth, I'm running 39 pounders.

60# might be overkill for pump gas but probably about right for E85 if he wants to run that. E85 would probably be a good idea for that set up. I plan to move to E85 myself for track days, pump gas for every other day.

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[zquez]

Also you may end up running even less than 10 lbs with all those supporting mods in order to make it reliable. I think 450-460 whp would be a good goal to shoot for while making sure you dont blow your motor.

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[NEMustang]

What are you looking for in terms of final numbers? Did you mention a built motor in there somewhere? The one area that stood out to me was the 60# injectors. It might be a small thing, but those might be overkill imo.

For what it's worth, I'm running 39 pounders and an A/F around 12, but I can't necessarily remember what size pulley. Either it's 3.33 or 3.60.

Stock motor...goal is 430-450 rwhp max...probably 10psi max. The 60# came with the setup...obviously, this Procharger setup would support alot more than I am looking for: 60#, D-1SC, Stage II...but the availability and price was right. The tune should be able to control the A/F, correct? Or do I need to drop to the 39# that normally come with the Stage II?

60# might be overkill for pump gas but probably about right for E85 if he wants to run that. E85 would probably be a good idea for that set up. I plan to move to E85 myself for track days, pump gas for every other day.

E85 option would mean about a 30% increase in fuel consumption (from what I understand) at about $2.40 a gallon in the northeast. However, no many stations, I would have to drain and reset tune every time I switched (this is a DD too). No stations within 50 mile of my primary track...

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

Also you may end up running even less than 10 lbs with all those supporting mods in order to make it reliable. I think 450-460 whp would be a good goal to shoot for while making sure you dont blow your motor.

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All that money to make 20-30whp more than a Coyote with intake/headers/exhaust/tune.

Good luck OP!

 

[sheizasosay]

All that money to make 20-30whp more than a Coyote with intake/headers/exhaust/tune.

Good luck OP!

The 5.0 is such a BIG step up from the 3v it's not even an argument. I got a 3v so I put a SC on it. Even though I can dust a 5.0, I'd rather have the 5.0..

What I'm trying to figure out is why and the hell the OP is putting that big ass cam on there. If skip that completely. Get u about 8-10lbs of boost and spend the left over money on a mezeire 20 or 22gpm pump, a bigger IC tank and run it.


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[zquez]

The 5.0 is such a BIG step up from the 3v it's not even an argument. I got a 3v so I put a SC on it. Even though I can dust a 5.0, I'd rather have the 5.0..

What I'm trying to figure out is why and the hell the OP is putting that big ass cam on there. If skip that completely. Get u about 8-10lbs of boost and spend the left over money on a mezeire 20 or 22gpm pump, a bigger IC tank and run it.


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Hes running an a2a setup so a pump wouldnt help, but i totally agree about the 5.0 its just such a vetter engine it doesnt make sense to invest in the 3v anymore. Ive often debated building up my 3v but the more i think about it the more i think i should just drop a 5.0 in instead. For all that cash he could get an aluminator crate engine and be set.


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[NEMustang]

What I'm trying to figure out is why and the hell the OP is putting that big ass cam on there. If skip that completely. Get u about 8-10lbs of boost and spend the left over money on a mezeire 20 or 22gpm pump, a bigger IC tank and run it.

The cam is already on the car with the FRPP manifold and headers...Basically, the Comp Stage 2 SPR has exactly the same intake specs as the Comp Stage 1 BLOWER SPR cam...Exhaust has a slight longer duration on the Blower cam. That cam is the primary reason for the motor currently making ~370 rwhp N/A. I can always pop in the stock cam.

BTW, Jon at Procharger indicated that the supporting mods, especially the cam, may drop the boost by 2 or more psi...

don't need a pump...the intercooler is Procharger high-end 3-core Air-to-air.

All that money to make 20-30whp more than a Coyote with intake/headers/exhaust/tune.

Good luck OP!

Thanks...about $4500 for all components including SC and other components added...

New coyote $6200...PCM,control pack, alternator, etc, etc...probably another $2500-$3000...

Intake/headers/exhaust/tune...another $1500

New coyote...$10K used Coyote probably around $7000k after install: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95688

 

[sheizasosay]

Hes running an a2a setup so a pump wouldnt help,


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don't need a pump...the intercooler is Procharger high-end 3-core Air-to-air.

My bad.