This gets tiring after a while!!!!!!

[DynoJoe]

I keep seeing people say that the MAgic number for Explosion on the 4.6 3V Motors in our car is 450-475 RWHP. Is it just me or are some people just afraid to find out for themselves what the limit is on something. I know there are a bunch of us making well over 600 RWHP and alot more making over 500 RWHP on the stock Motor.

It just gets to me that there are so many followers in the world and not enough people willing to test limits and prove they can do something instead of taking someone word that this is true or not.

 

[94tbird]

i myself are at aproximately 500RWHP now. i will be over that with the headers in a week or two. i am worried for sure, but with a proper tune, my worries will be set to rest. Theres no secret the stock internals are garbage, but i think you can get good power out of them befopre the motor blows.

something to consider is not every engine is the same. some have blown with sub 450hp and others are running reliably at over 500rwhp.

 

[S197 GT]

I am one of the people who is following along those numbers being my threshold.

I guess it's the application that counts. Mine's a daily driver, so I don't really want to push the envelope too far with my stock motor. Primarily due to the down time involved.

I'm currently running 8psi and I have been tempted to throw a 10 psi pulley on it...but I know that I'm on the verge of taking the big leap (i.e. full build) or just staying where I am currently. I can't find a happy medium between the two, because I feel any steps towards more power will require the planning of a build.

Had this car been a weekend warrior or a designated track car, I'd be more inclined to shoot for the build.

I'm at roughly 440+ rwhp. But my tune is great and the car runs like a raped ape! :doggystyle:

But then again, we all know how it goes...I'll likely end up going for the gusto in the longrun.

 

[imported_KIMMER]

Well, you guys start sending me turbos and stuff and i'll start bolting them on, till we get to the limit and she pops.

 

[Hawgman]

I'm pretty much were Nick is except 2psi and about 45rwhp higher.

 

[94tbird]

haha kimmer if i had the money id surely help you out there lol

 

[3V_V8]

Don't forget the money issue too, in a couple of months I'm hoping to get me a whipple kit w/ 8 or 10 psi.

 

[S197 GT]

Now, if I had a turbo I would have a different mind set, as you'll be at higher rwhp with less parisitic loss, so my 440+ could be 460+ with a turbo.

I'm sure I'll get a ride in Cali HP's ride, and I'll change my mind immediately!

I gotta say though, it's really hard restraining myself!

 

[DynoJoe]

My biggest problem is no one with a decent tune has found the limits of these motors on daily drivers. Shawn's Turbo car could easily be a daily driver, if He wanted to drive it daily!

It makes awsome power in the 650+ range and drives like a dream.


Everyone assumes that because so and so blew their motor at 450 that theirs will blow at the same HP level. The tune on these cars is the biggest thing to look at when going high HP.

My whole idea to starting this thread was that Everyone has this pre-determined Number that the motor will pop, and that is not true. There are some making alot more but they are willing to, and there are some making alot less because they don't want to face the $ factor if they do pop so they go by what "someone else said would pop the motor."

It just gets old sometimes. Someone who hasn't taken the time to try something goes by what others say and then they do not feel the need to try something because they assume it's already been done and proven.

 

[Hawgman]

I do agree with you Joe on the "eeewww that number is taboo" crap. I have always said that it is 90% tune and 10% parts. You certainly can't rule out a part failure reguardless of how good the tune might be or who did it. But yes, the tune is for sure the biggest determining factor.



650? Damn, every time you nutt schwing about that car that number gets bigger. I thought you didn't have a dyno sheet for it because every time it is on the rollers it breaks.

 

[cekim]

It just gets to me that there are so many followers in the world and not enough people willing to test limits and prove they can do something instead of taking someone word that this is true or not.

leadership is expensive - ask Mark - I think we can forgive the/us poor lemmings of the mod world a little fear of the unknown...

That number for the most part seems to represent the idiot proof barrier...

bad driving, inaccurate temp/pressure monitoring, marginal tune, weather, undiagnosed other problems waiting - all these issues take a perfectly repeatable setup and subtract off margin for error...

There is also the issue of how quickly the owner responds to something going wrong... Do they notice the sound, smell, A/F, fuel pressue, temp, etc... "off" right away or do they wait until something realy expensive happens to conclude there is a problem?

The data "joe shmo"TM has to work with is usually a "sample of one" (their own car) which any mathematician/engineer/nerd will tell you is woefully insufficient to draw any meaningful conclusions...

 

[06GT_Vert]

650? Damn, every time you nutt schwing about that car that number gets bigger. I thought you didn't have a dyno sheet for it because every time it is on the rollers it breaks.


O Doc - its kinda like playing poker - You NEVER show your hand......I just keep spending mooooore money to get the # up their!!!!!!!!!!!LOL :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Hawgman]

Don't get me wrong Shawn, I know the car is fun, I have rode in it. And I wasn't bagging on it in any way. Just saying, that thing is like that 4" fish that was caught and by the time you get back home it was a 15 pounder!

 

[DynoJoe]

Nut Swing................ I know what the car will do and won't do. I built it, drive it and I'll prob. be the one who kills it. It's all on my head at the end of the day. I make sure it runs, gets maintained and treat it like the Child I'll never have. I''m proud of what that car has done with what it's got. It makes me smile everytime I run it and suprises me sometimes at how well it runs on my home made "Ennis highway" tune. Sure every time we take it to the dyno something happens but when we take it to the track........IT RUNS it's A#$ off or it knows it will get beat harder. Kinda like a race horse. this car just doesn't like the dyno!

That's all I gots to say about that.

 

[DynoJoe]

It just gets to me that there are so many followers in the world and not enough people willing to test limits and prove they can do something instead of taking someone word that this is true or not.

leadership is expensive - ask Mark - I think we can forgive the/us poor lemmings of the mod world a little fear of the unknown...

That number for the most part seems to represent the idiot proof barrier...

bad driving, inaccurate temp/pressure monitoring, marginal tune, weather, undiagnosed other problems waiting - all these issues take a perfectly repeatable setup and subtract off margin for error...

There is also the issue of how quickly the owner responds to something going wrong... Do they notice the sound, smell, A/F, fuel pressue, temp, etc... "off" right away or do they wait until something realy expensive happens to conclude there is a problem?

The data "joe shmo"TM has to work with is usually a "sample of one" (their own car) which any mathematician/engineer/nerd will tell you is woefully insufficient to draw any meaningful conclusions...

you are correct Mike. Data is the big thing. Problem is everyone can and is willing to build a Big power street Monster, but not many can maintain it and keep it a street monster instead of the "Former Street Monster....now Garage queen because it's broke and I can't fix it."

 

[Hawgman]

650? Damn, every time you nutt schwing about that car that number gets bigger. I thought you didn't have a dyno sheet for it because every time it is on the rollers it breaks.

Nut Swing................ I know what the car will do and won't do. I built it, drive it and I'll prob. be the one who kills it. It's all on my head at the end of the day. I make sure it runs, gets maintained and treat it like the Child I'll never have. I''m proud of what that car has done with what it's got. It makes me smile everytime I run it and suprises me sometimes at how well it runs on my home made "Ennis highway" tune.

That's all I gots to say about that.

Don't get yer knickers in a twist skippy. I stated very specifically that I wasn't bagging on the car. I was just asking about the damn number. Couple of days ago it was 600, then it was 600+, now it is 650. I know Shawn isn't out there rubbing on it so how does it keep growing?


What the fukk you care what I say anyway? I have a POS Saleen SC that won't make over 5psi because the damn boost bypass is broke and it is making the damn thing surge so bad that it is pretty much undriveable right now, and NO FUCKING ONE AT SALEEN wants to sell me a new part!

 

[cekim]

Problem is everyone can and is willing to build a Big power street Monster, but not many can maintain it and keep it a street monster instead of the "Former Street Monster....now Garage queen because it's broke and I can't fix it."

now that's a better gripe IMO...

"I just tripled the HP (from stock) on my car and it blew up - what went wrong?"
OR
"I have $5K to spend on FI - but not another dollar to spend on any other supporting mods - ever - not going to spend another $ - will I run into any trouble?"

The internet is part of the problem... "Normal" is now negtioable because there is a critical mass of "oddballs" for any given subject that make almost any activity seem commonplace...

 

[DynoJoe]

650? Damn, every time you nutt schwing about that car that number gets bigger. I thought you didn't have a dyno sheet for it because every time it is on the rollers it breaks.

Nut Swing................ I know what the car will do and won't do. I built it, drive it and I'll prob. be the one who kills it. It's all on my head at the end of the day. I make sure it runs, gets maintained and treat it like the Child I'll never have. I''m proud of what that car has done with what it's got. It makes me smile everytime I run it and suprises me sometimes at how well it runs on my home made "Ennis highway" tune.

That's all I gots to say about that.

Don't get yer knickers in a twist skippy. I stated very specifically that I wasn't bagging on the car. I was just asking about the damn number. Couple of days ago it was 600, then it was 600+, now it is 650. I know Shawn isn't out there rubbing on it so how does it keep growing?


What the fukk you care what I say anyway? I have a POS Saleen SC that won't make over 5psi because the damn boost bypass is broke and it is making the damn thing surge so bad that it is pretty much undriveable right now, and NO FUCKING ONE AT SALEEN wants to sell me a new part!

No one's getting pissy. I got it back together yesterday and me and shawn took it out for a little test run. LEt's just say that on Thursday in Atlanta, it will see 18PSI and C-16 and it better see some 10's or it will get a new moonroof.

 

[DynoJoe]

Problem is everyone can and is willing to build a Big power street Monster, but not many can maintain it and keep it a street monster instead of the "Former Street Monster....now Garage queen because it's broke and I can't fix it."

now that's a better gripe IMO...

"I just tripled the HP (from stock) on my car and it blew up - what went wrong?"
OR
"I have $5K to spend on FI - but not another dollar to spend on any other supporting mods - ever - not going to spend another $ - will I run into any trouble?"

The internet is part of the problem... "Normal" is now negtioable because there is a critical mass of "oddballs" for any given subject that make almost any activity seem commonplace...

You are correct. I have people question me when I tell them if they want me to install any type of power adder it will get an A/F meter, Fuel Pressure gauge......No questions asked. They freak out about the $369.00 for an A/F Meter and Fuel pressure gauge and ask why????? Doesn't the tune you're doing get it right. It's hard to explain that the tune "should" get it right, but things happen and things change. Fuel Pumps fail, fuel pressure drops , Outside temps change, parts get stressed and fail. I try to explain that these are 2 gauges that they need to watch like a Hawk and if they look out of place, get out of the gas and call Me ASAP. The one's who's motors live called, the one's that said.I don't have the money or I'll call later atre the ones I see come by on a wrecker.

 

[94tbird]

it is all in the tune for the msot part as stated before. when i first did my S/C isntall i ran for 2 weeks with no gagues and i was scared shitless. i had no idea what was gonig on. now that i have em i got peace of mind