Track guru's need help with brake fluid

way2qk4u2c

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Alright im signed up for a track day and need to know how to properfly flush my brake fluid and clutch fluid. Currently i have dot 3 in the system and need to put dot 4 in. I have a 2011 mustang gt. I keep reading on how to bleed the clutch system but no where does it say how to flush it. How do you get all of dot 3 fluid out of the clutch line? Do they come with a bleeder on the clutch?
 

jayel579

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Just do a fluid change for your brakes, you will never get it all out of the clutch system....
 

Sleeper_08

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This is one of the benefits of ATE Super Blue. You can see when it is coming out, Then next eason you switch to the Amber Typ 200.

Drain as much fluid out of the reservoir as you can then carefully fill it with the new fluid. I use a turkey baster with a piece of hose on the end to drain.

Start with the right rear and keep bleeding until the new fluid comes out. Then left rear,right front and left front. Keep filling the reservoir.

It usually takes about 1 1/2 litres.
 

DUFUS

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So if I thought I completely flushed my system with just under a liter I'm probably mistaken? I went the Blue route to specifically find out how much it would take. I bled until blue out of all four corners. Maybe I didn't wait for it to get blue enough. Oh well, I suppose I have a hybrid Motul 600/ATE Super Blue cocktail, shouldn't be a problem, they play well together and the Motul itself had been partially bled one track day ago.
 

Sleeper_08

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There is always a little mixing in the reservoir even after draining it as much as possible.

1 liter is supposed to be enough but my brother helps me bleed mine, he is on the wrench end and I'm on the pedal end, and he is ultra conservative.
 

Captain_Stangin'

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Have you guys tried speed bleeders? When there's no one around to help, the speed bleeders are amazing!

+1 on ATE SuperBlue/Type 200, excellent value brake fluid.

I have no idea about the clutch fluid. I can tell you that I have about 8 hours of track time on my car, still on factory clutch fluid.
 

Towelly

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Have you guys tried speed bleeders? When there's no one around to help, the speed bleeders are amazing!

+1 on ATE SuperBlue/Type 200, excellent value brake fluid.

I have no idea about the clutch fluid. I can tell you that I have about 8 hours of track time on my car, still on factory clutch fluid.

Clutch uses same reseviour as brakes FYI.
 

DusterRT

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Make sure you get the one with the aluminum adapter, I got the 'standard' plastic one by mistake, fit was a little sloppy but decided to just use it anyway. It deformed and blew brake fluid ALL OVER the place..I put my speed bleeders back in after that.

Also worth noting is I wasn't able to use the Motive with the speed bleeders, the 10-15psi used by the motive isn't enough to overcome the check springs.
 

TheKurgan

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Have you guys tried speed bleeders? When there's no one around to help, the speed bleeders are amazing!

+1 on ATE SuperBlue/Type 200, excellent value brake fluid.

I have no idea about the clutch fluid. I can tell you that I have about 8 hours of track time on my car, still on factory clutch fluid.

Speed bleeders will eventually go out on you. Just pray it doesn't happen on track. Also I'm able to get a much tighter pedal using 2 people.
 

Vapour Trails

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Speed bleeders will eventually go out on you. Just pray it doesn't happen on track.

That's a load of shit. If it's torqued down properly, it's the same thing as normal bleed screw. You might need to reapply the sealant to the threads after a lot of use, otherwise there is nothing to fear if used in a non-retarded fashion.
 
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TheKurgan

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That's a load of shit. If it's torqued down properly, it's the same thing as normal bleed screw. You might need to reapply the sealant to the threads after a lot of use, otherwise there is nothing to fear if used in a non-retarded fashion.


It's happened to me and is a fairly common occurrence so no, it's not a load of shit. They are known for binding and sticking open. I think this has been covered before, but go ahead and use them. Hopefully, we'll never be on the same track together.
 

DusterRT

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It's happened to me and is a fairly common occurrence so no, it's not a load of shit. They are known for binding and sticking open.

How exactly? I'm trying to envision how that could happen but I'm drawing a blank. Once they're tightened down, they seal just like a normal bleeder screw..
 

TheKurgan

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How exactly? I'm trying to envision how that could happen but I'm drawing a blank. Once they're tightened down, they seal just like a normal bleeder screw..


When it happened to me it happened on the last wheel bleed...driver's side front. I tightened it down then went for a drive. When I got back there was brake fluid all over the wheel and fender well. I was like wtf. I then had my buddy push the pedal while I observed brake fluid shooting straight out of the bleed valve..not out the sides or anywhere else...right out of the valve hole. Checked to make sure it was tight and it was. I quit using them right then and there.
 

DusterRT

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When it happened to me it happened on the last wheel bleed...driver's side front. I tightened it down then went for a drive. When I got back there was brake fluid all over the wheel and fender well. I was like wtf. I then had my buddy push the pedal while I observed brake fluid shooting straight out of the bleed valve..not out the sides or anywhere else...right out of the valve hole. Checked to make sure it was tight and it was. I quit using them right then and there.

Did you keep the bleeder or just toss it? What exactly failed?
 

SoundGuyDave

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Speed Bleeders: I've used both the Russel and the Earls, and while I prefer the Russel piece, I honestly have a hard time figuring out WHAT could fail in the manner described. On the Earls' design, the bottom portion of the bleeder, the conical sealing piece, is spring loaded away from the rest of the bleeder screw, and if properly tightened (not loose, that would allow the fluid to lift the plunger and exit the bleeder, but also not over-tightened, which could deform the sealing surface), there's just no way that what was described could possibly happen. With the Russel design, the exterior of the bleed screw is one-piece, and looks just like a stocker. Internally, there is a spring-loaded check ball acting as a one-way valve. Again, there is no moving part to fail, and cause the described leak.

The only things I can think of that would create the described failure would be improper torque (deformed or not tight) or debris wedged between the bleeder screw and the caliper right in the cone-seat area. If either design failed in the valving somehow, it would still seal tight, but would lose it's one-way functionality. Either way, it sounds like operator error to me.

PS: Yes, I use them, and will continue to use them, and have had NO brake issues on track. I have, however, seen lots of screwed up bleeds done in the paddock resulting in a spongy pedal out on track. Speed bleeders mean never having to say "up/open/down/closed" again...

PPS: I'm also trying to figure out exactly how nobody noticed the falling pedal with a leaking bleeder. ANY leak in a hydraulic system will let the pedal start to fall under pressure, and should be thing one that you check before pulling out after service...
 
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