Triple pump vs Dual Pump Heat Test! (mythbuster addition)

[RRRoamer]

Each pump is going to have X amount of BTU output, so it goes without saying that the triple is going to produce 50% more BTUs.

This statement is simply not true EXCEPT in the case were the pumps are running at 100% output. At any other time, it will take less voltage and (therefore) less current to each of the THREE pumps to provide the same volume at the same pressure. Since power (aka: heat) = voltage * current (and in this case) * number of pumps, each of the three pumps will be putting out LESS heat than each of the dual pumps. The total will be more (more friction with three pumps brushes if nothing else), but no where near 50% more.

At the limiting case were the pumps are all running at 100% output, the triple pump setup will be putting out 50% more heat then the dual setup, but it will also be pumping a lot more fuel as well.

 

[RRRoamer]

This statement is simply not true EXCEPT in the case were the pumps are running at 100% output. At any other time, it will take less voltage and (therefore) less current to each of the THREE pumps to provide the same volume at the same pressure. Since power (aka: heat) = voltage * current (and in this case) * number of pumps, each of the three pumps will be putting out LESS heat than each of the dual pumps. The total will be more (more friction with three pumps brushes if nothing else), but no where near 50% more.

At the limiting case were the pumps are all running at 100% output, the triple pump setup will be putting out 50% more heat then the dual setup, but it will also be pumping a lot more fuel as well.

Of course, it was pointed out to me that this is a return system, so the pumps ARE running at 100% all the time... Now I'll work at removing my foot from my mouth...

 

[sharkbaits]

The test was run as if it was a return style fuel system were the pumps run 100% all the time.

 

[Wicked97]

here are your 400 test numbers

We also did our flow test.

Triple 342s flow 155 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50PSI
Dual 400s flow 139 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50 PSI
Triple 400s flow 169 Gallons per hour @ 13 volts and 50 PSI

Al tests were conducted with pump temp in the range of 90-95 degrees!

So all in all to me it seems to be pretty clear that a triple 342 will out preform a dual 400 set up in both cases(heat and flow). I will also add that the 342s are cheaper!

Walbro 342 are 100 Each
Walbo 405s are 159.95

Also i will add unless you are making 1000 RWHP on E85(1450 RWHP on race gas) you dont really need need triple 400s. We can support over 1000 to the tire on regular fuel with the 342s. We have proved this with several cars.

 

[JeremyH]

 

[Wicked97]

Thats a nice graph, can you(or fore) explain how you got these numbers. I can give you a step by step on how we tested our setup. We timed how long it took to pump 2.5 gallons of fuel at a flowing 50PSI.

 

[JeremyH]

Give Justin a call, 386-767-3817, he spends alot of time working with and testing these pumps.

 

[Wicked97]

Give Justin a call, 386-767-3817, he spends alot of time working with and testing these pumps.

I might call him, I wonder what hat he used for the triple test i know he didnt use ours. So if he used an old fore hat that had the 3 outlets, Maybe they didnt flow as much? Not saying that ours is better but that could be the diffrence we are seeing in flow numbers.

Basically that graph says both are flowing about 211-215 gallons per hour. Our numbers are a bit lower but we were only testing at 12.8- 13 volts.

 

[tommygodfrey]

Our main concern was to Myth Bust the (3) 342's heats the fuel over a twin 400 or 405 pump (whatever you want them to be called ) set up which is 100% inaccurate. It was really irrelevant to us since the cp-e hats that we use and sell will support 2 pump or 3 pump designs and the cp-e hat is the only hat currently on the market that can support 2 or 3 pumps and support the Walbro (USA) 342/400/450 pumps. ( or 405/465 whichever the flavor of the week name is for the last 2 pumps )
We just prefer actual data not just saying this does this just because we think so and we do not sell that part. We like to keep an open mind about products and we like to have the ability to sell everything so we do not have to force sell something to our customers even if it's not the best. I personally worked at another performance shop for 10 years that was like this, I had to sell the best of what we had, not actually the best product and I never enjoyed that.

Also REAL WORLD HP NUMBERS on our systems.

We have a few cars running our systems that are actually making BIG POWER.

JPC Shop car 2011 Paxton (urt-a gas) 1035rwhp w/ ID72's & (3)342's.
JPC Built 2011 Single 76mm turbo system car ( american muscle shootout winner )(urt-a gas) 1015rwhp w/ ID & (3)342's
2012 Boss w/ F1 procharger (e-85) 1033rwhp w/ 105's & (3)400's ( soon to be T76mm turbo
Team Beefcake 2011 Vortech (e-85) 1003rwhp w/ ID1000 & (3) 400's
Chris Cruz 2011 Whipple 4.0 (e-85) 1002rwhp w/205's & (3) DeatschWerks 300

Many others that I can't think of right now.

 

[tjm73]

I don't know that I would consider this very real world though. Some things you can't account for doing it like this. Heat radiated off asphalt into the tank is a BTU gain, heat radiated off the exhaust into the tank is a BTU gain, then a moving car has external airflow over the tank which is a BTU loss.

True those are external factors, but they would effect the 2 or 3 pump setups equally. They actually removed this variable by doing the test this way.

If 1 pump makes X heat, then 2 pumps make 2X heat and 3 pumps make 3X heat. Sounds simple enough, but I suspect it's not that simple. I would bet that pump duty cycle is not a 1:1 relation to pump heat. pressure is involved and I'd bet pressure impacts the pumps heat rise.

 

[Wicked97]

True those are external factors, but they would effect the 2 or 3 pump setups equally. They actually removed this variable by doing the test this way.

If 1 pump makes X heat, then 2 pumps make 2X heat and 3 pumps make 3X heat. Sounds simple enough, but I suspect it's not that simple. I would bet that pump duty cycle is not a 1:1 relation to pump heat. pressure is involved and I'd bet pressure impacts the pumps heat rise.

Yes there are other factors but i think this is a pretty good test. Im sure more PSI = More heat. I just dont have time to test pumps for an hour on 9 diffrent settings.

This test was very time consuming.

 

[weather man]

Our main concern was to Myth Bust the (3) 342's heats the fuel over a twin 400 or 405 pump (whatever you want them to be called ) set up which is 100% inaccurate. It was really irrelevant to us since the cp-e hats that we use and sell will support 2 pump or 3 pump designs and the cp-e hat is the only hat currently on the market that can support 2 or 3 pumps and support the Walbro (USA) 342/400/450 pumps. ( or 405/465 whichever the flavor of the week name is for the last 2 pumps )
We just prefer actual data not just saying this does this just because we think so and we do not sell that part. We like to keep an open mind about products and we like to have the ability to sell everything so we do not have to force sell something to our customers even if it's not the best. I personally worked at another performance shop for 10 years that was like this, I had to sell the best of what we had, not actually the best product and I never enjoyed that.

Also REAL WORLD HP NUMBERS on our systems.

We have a few cars running our systems that are actually making BIG POWER.

JPC Shop car 2011 Paxton (urt-a gas) 1035rwhp w/ ID72's & (3)342's.
JPC Built 2011 Single 76mm turbo system car ( american muscle shootout winner )(urt-a gas) 1015rwhp w/ ID & (3)342's
2012 Boss w/ F1 procharger (e-85) 1033rwhp w/ 105's & (3)400's ( soon to be T76mm turbo
Team Beefcake 2011 Vortech (e-85) 1003rwhp w/ ID1000 & (3) 400's
Chris Cruz 2011 Whipple 4.0 (e-85) 1002rwhp w/205's & (3) DeatschWerks 300

Many others that I can't think of right now.

Tommy, I hope I am not stepping on my crank here, but have you guys used this pump at all?

Aeromotive A1000

Features & Benefits
• Single Drop in Fuel Pump
• Capable of up to 1400 hp
• Uses OE in-tank siphon system
• Seals with factory o-ring and lock ring
• Incorporates an integral stainless steel 100 micron pre-pump filter
• Requires the use of a true “return style” fuel system with bypass style regulator and return line.
18676 A1000 Mustang Stealth Kit – S197
18682 A1000 GT500 Stealth Kit – S197
Part #: 18673 (A1000)
Fly Wheel HP: 1000 hp Forced Induction EFI • 1300 hp Naturally Aspirated EFI
Durability: Continuous duty, street or track driven

 

[tommygodfrey]

Tommy, I hope I am not stepping on my crank here, but have you guys used this pump at all?

Aeromotive A1000

Features & Benefits
• Single Drop in Fuel Pump
• Capable of up to 1400 hp
• Uses OE in-tank siphon system
• Seals with factory o-ring and lock ring
• Incorporates an integral stainless steel 100 micron pre-pump filter
• Requires the use of a true “return style” fuel system with bypass style regulator and return line.
18676 A1000 Mustang Stealth Kit – S197
18682 A1000 GT500 Stealth Kit – S197
Part #: 18673 (A1000)
Fly Wheel HP: 1000 hp Forced Induction EFI • 1300 hp Naturally Aspirated EFI
Durability: Continuous duty, street or track driven

Not in this application. We've used them in the past with normal set ups. We've had our ups and downs with the a1000's.

We have heard good and bad on these set ups.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

Tommy, Aaron, Eric, did JB have any trouble down in OC or Myrtle cruising around on the streets for long periods of time with the return setup. I would just assume running around like that with the pumps screaming and heating the fuel up wouldn't be very good. Isn't that the general thought? Return setups aren't the best for true street cars? I mean i've seen you guys say that the car was just fine cruising around like that?

 

[tommygodfrey]

Tommy, Aaron, Eric, did JB have any trouble down in OC or Myrtle cruising around on the streets for long periods of time with the return setup. I would just assume running around like that with the pumps screaming and heating the fuel up wouldn't be very good. Isn't that the general thought? Return setups aren't the best for true street cars? I mean i've seen you guys say that the car was just fine cruising around like that?

Car ran great no issues at all

 

[Wicked97]

Tommy, Aaron, Eric, did JB have any trouble down in OC or Myrtle cruising around on the streets for long periods of time with the return setup. I would just assume running around like that with the pumps screaming and heating the fuel up wouldn't be very good. Isn't that the general thought? Return setups aren't the best for true street cars? I mean i've seen you guys say that the car was just fine cruising around like that?

No sir just like Tommy said the car ran great. The triple 342s worked great!

Did you look at all the data on the front page of this thread? Justins car hasnt had a fuel supply or heat problem yet? The Triple 342s are the best combo out as car as fuel supply/heat

 

[weather man]

This tech was on SVTP, but felt it was a great write up for guys going with a return style system and worth putting a link up.

Basic gist is that the pumps, as in this thread do heat, but nothing compared to what the engine bay can do. Routing is very important.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ally-dropped-my-fuel-temps-by-over-100F/page2