turbo guys...how are you venting your crank case?

[retfr8flyr]

Unmetered didn't seem to be a problem. I made some other changes at the same time as I did the PCV setup and had it retuned with the new setup. Everything was fine and the car drove great, no more oil smell and plenty of breather capacity at WOT.

I didn't get to drive it very long as I had the phaser problem and fire, so the car is down right now. Here a couple of pics but the lines really don't show up very well.

Drivers side with catch can and line running to forward catch can.

Passenger side with lines for stock outlet and added fitting going to foreard catch can and breather on oil inlet.

Earl

 

[Speed+Clinic]

You have no idea what my set up is or how big my lines are so how do you know I need bigger lines?

I have 3 #10 lines coming from the valve covers, going to a tank that is capped off, with a 4th #10 line feeding to a delco vac pump....

When my piston went , it pressurized my crank case with 16psi, with the vac pump already pulling....it still popped my cap off the breather tank and forced oil out....

That's not something heard somewhere, that's something that happened to me. How much pressure are you currently pushing into your motor ?

You had a piston failure, do you think you would had not puked oil if it had a breather?


I run 20 psi on my 3v but I have had other car's seeing 30+psi with a pcv system.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

From what I have seen a turbo setup(knock knock thats what this particular thread is about anyway) will pull the pull the air fast enough that it makes it almost impossible for a seperator to get all the oil vapor out of the air and keep it out of the turbo/coldside/ maf and into the intake and so on. This is one area where following KISS and using breathers works out really well for a turbo car. Breathers, cheapest and easiest route and it works, dont have to worry about oil getting in period, adding a tank or a tank to drain and a bunch of extra lines/fittings or a check valve, yadda yadda. One thing for sure though is this thought that you continously need vacuum to "seat the rings" lol... on a boosted setup on our cars is just not so. I have had breathers on my car for 4 years, ran them when I was na as well. But just like everything for our cars different strokes for different folks and any number of setups can get the job done and we will still continue to beat the dead horse about it.

Exactly everyone has their own opinion about everything but the truth is you need some crankcase vacuum to get the piston rings to seal correctly if not you will consume oil. I see a lot of people with breathers here, how many consume oil? For me oil consumption is something I don't like putting up with when I can prevent it unless you are running a very loose engine.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Also I would like to clean up something I said wrong. I said I didn't put an extra valve in when that was incorrect. The fittings I use are one way flow. Now I see where all the fuss was about the crankcase being over-pressurized.

 

[Turbostangs90]

Unmetered didn't seem to be a problem. I made some other changes at the same time as I did the PCV setup and had it retuned with the new setup. Everything was fine and the car drove great, no more oil smell and plenty of breather capacity at WOT.

I didn't get to drive it very long as I had the phaser problem and fire, so the car is down right now. Here a couple of pics but the lines really don't show up very well.

Drivers side with catch can and line running to forward catch can.

Passenger side with lines for stock outlet and added fitting going to foreard catch can and breather on oil inlet.

Earl

So let me make sure I got how this kit is setup.

Driver's side is VC to Intake with a Check and Catch Can in place
Passenger's side is a large bung welded in with a hose going to a catch can?

Is the filter on the oil fill still necessary?

 

[Swarzkopf]

Not a turbo setup...but running breathers with no oil consumption here.
Ran breathers on my last Mustang ('95 GT) and it did consume a little oil, but I was also spraying a 125 shot on it for about 5 years. Compression was still decent when I sold it too.

The only drawback to breathers is the oil stank I get sometimes after beating on the car and then getting stuck in traffic. Other then that, no complaints.

I think that this subject gets WAY over-thought here.

 

[one eyed willy]

You had a piston failure, do you think you would had not puked oil if it had a breather?


I run 20 psi on my 3v but I have had other car's seeing 30+psi with a pcv system.

thats my point, breathers or no breathers, at 16psi in the crank case it was enough to blow shit off and puke oil every where, so dont tell me its ok to pressurize the crank case and tell me i dont know anything becuase im just listening to the internet, this thread is 3 years old and i have tried 3-4 different ways of doing the crank case vent .....my crank case is wide open all the way to the vac pump, and even with the pump turned off it still allows air to go out....but that still didnt prevent it from popping things apart and puking oil.


a PCV system is alot different then just letting the pressure fill the bottom end....PCV has valves to prevent the pressure from going in, only lets the air out, aot different than what you originaly posted......

 

[one eyed willy]

Also I would like to clean up something I said wrong. I said I didn't put an extra valve in when that was incorrect. The fittings I use are one way flow. Now I see where all the fuss was about the crankcase being over-pressurized.

you clearly stated it was OK to "blow boost to the crankcase".....thats not just something you said by mistake, you really thought it was OK to actually boost the bottom end of the motor......your statement below

You can blow boost to the crankcase. Remember when it is blowing boost to the crank case the manifold is pressurized as well. The volume of the crankcase is kept at around the same # during an engine rotation so it won't suddenly pressurize more than the manifold. Even if that was the case, the boost will not enter the crankcase and go back into the intake and into the manifold. I would keep the stock system route and only replace it with bigger hoses and fittings. You can buy them at any pepboys, autozone, advanced auto parts. Instead of a catch can I would run an air/oil separator.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I understand and my bad completely. I had totally forgotten that the pcv fittings had valves in them.

What vacuum pump do you run?

 

[one eyed willy]

Exactly everyone has their own opinion about everything but the truth is you need some crankcase vacuum to get the piston rings to seal correctly if not you will consume oil. I see a lot of people with breathers here, how many consume oil? For me oil consumption is something I don't like putting up with when I can prevent it unless you are running a very loose engine.

i 100% agree with needing vacuum.....

 

[one eyed willy]

I understand and my bad completely. I had totally forgotten that the pcv fittings had valves in them.

What vacuum pump do you run?

GM AC delco from the 90's camaro. problem with that thing is that it is too loud. so i cant have it on until i get the car going. so when the new motor goes in, i want to convert to something that will pull vac when the car is at idle as well. something like what bruce and earl did.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Does anyone have the Ford PCV system diagram?

 

[retfr8flyr]

So let me make sure I got how this kit is setup.

Driver's side is VC to Intake with a Check and Catch Can in place
Passenger's side is a large bung welded in with a hose going to a catch can?

Is the filter on the oil fill still necessary?

Close, the drivers side also has a #10 bung welded into the cam cover. On the drivers side the line from the bung has a check valve in it allowing flow out but not in, this line runs to a breather catch can. The stock fitting runs to the JLT catch can and I installed another check valve in this line, because the stock PCV fitting was not designed to withstand 15+ pounds of boost so I don't trust it. The passenger side lines do not have check valves in them so this setup allows unmetered air to enter the intake.

This is supposed to be a no no but I haven't observed any problems with it yet. It doesn't act like a vacuum leak and runs fine. By having the check valve in the #10 line drivers side line the engine vacuum has to draw the air from the other side so I think the quantity is so limited it doesn't affect the tune.

I don't think the breather on the oil filler is necessary anymore and I plan to eliminate it when I get it back together.


Earl

 

[Makdaddy]

Im going to try the Krankvent on my build
Seems to make sense


http://www.et-performance.com/turbo.html

 

[recordbreaker5]

Im going to try thr Krankvent on my build
Seems to make sense


http://www.et-performance.com/turbo.html

+1
going with the krankvent on a new pcv setup here soon. I was worried about the whole stock check holding higher boost levels, no chancing it.

 

[JeremyH]

Now that I have the oil-less turbo in I can tell you for a fact im not consuming any oil. I have been keeping a close eye on oil level as I had a leak from one of the oil filter relocation line fittings at first. Fixed that and have been keeping an eye on it ever since and oil level has not gone down. I will continue to keep an eye on it until next oil change interval. I get the ocasional drop from the passenger side breather, thats it.

The goal here is not to have excessive crankcase pressure, breathers, vented catch can or a closed sytem with an oil seperator and a check valve to keep manifold boost from going back in(which seems most risky method since valves can fail and you are restricted the air path out with hoses as well as are recircing oil vapor into the intake/coldside etc) Any of these methods will prevent excessive crankcase so choose what fits your needs.

With the combustion process as well as boost in the cylinders there is no way your going to get oil/air forcing its way back into the cylinder past the rings with breathers. Only way it would happen is if you have excessve crankcase pressure and the pressure inside the crankcase is more than in the cylinder. Hence where the breathers come in, they are a direct unrestricted path for the crankcase pressure to vent so there is never any pressure to force its way back into the cylinder from the crankcase. This whole concept of not having a bunch of vacuum in the crankcase on a boosted car will cause rings to unseat or cause oil to leak back in is complete bs. There is always pressure forcing its way past the rings into the crankcase and then out the breathers so that pressure leaving is essential the same thing as having vaccum anyway. We aren't running big block big displacement high windage motors here where you need the vaccum and have a larger volume crankcase to evacuate.

There is no measurable perfomance or functionality to be gained from keeping a closed system with boost on our cars and this thought that you need a ton of vac. The closed system was deisgned for emissions purposes and is the prefered method if you don't like the smell thats it.

 

[Makdaddy]

) The closed system was deisgned for emissions purposes and is the prefered method if you don't like the smell thats it.

OH That Smell Can you smell that Smell
Yea I gotta do it to keep my wifey happy

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Now that I have the oil-less turbo in I can tell you for a fact im not consuming any oil. I have been keeping a close eye on oil level as I had a leak from one of the oil filter relocation line fittings at first. Fixed that and have been keeping an eye on it ever since and oil level has not gone down. I will continue to keep an eye on it until next oil change interval. I get the ocasional drop from the passenger side breather, thats it.

The goal here is not to have excessive crankcase pressure, breathers, vented catch can or a closed sytem with an oil seperator and a check valve to keep manifold boost from going back in(which seems most risky method since valves can fail and you are restricted the air path out with hoses as well as are recircing oil vapor into the intake/coldside etc) Any of these methods will prevent excessive crankcase so choose what fits your needs.

With the combustion process as well as boost in the cylinders there is no way your going to get oil/air forcing its way back into the cylinder past the rings with breathers. Only way it would happen is if you have excessve crankcase pressure and the pressure inside the crankcase is more than in the cylinder. Hence where the breathers come in, they are a direct unrestricted path for the crankcase pressure to vent so there is never any pressure to force its way back into the cylinder from the crankcase. This whole concept of not having a bunch of vacuum in the crankcase on a boosted car will cause rings to unseat or cause oil to leak back in is complete bs. There is always pressure forcing its way past the rings into the crankcase and then out the breathers so that pressure leaving is essential the same thing as having vaccum anyway. We aren't running big block big displacement high windage motors here where you need the vaccum and have a larger volume crankcase to evacuate.

There is no measurable perfomance or functionality to be gained from keeping a closed system with boost on our cars and this thought that you need a ton of vac. The closed system was deisgned for emissions purposes and is the prefered method if you don't like the smell thats it.

So why do manufacturers break-in engines with vacuum activated and not the other way around. Do you have any tech, i would love to read some and see the other point of view to make an educated choice.

 

[DRock]

Im going to try the Krankvent on my build
Seems to make sense


http://www.et-performance.com/turbo.html

That setup seems way legit. I think I understand but anyone have actual pics of it installed?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Looks like a check valve. $120 for that is kinda steep... I can do my entire pcv system just for that price.