Upper 3rd Link ?

[mustangflanagan]

i dont think its the upper because it did it when i had just the lower control arms in with the stock upper

 

[SoundGuyDave]

The stock upper still has the mis-matched bolt sizes. Once you took all the complience out of the noodles, er, I mean factory lower control arms, a LOT more force got directed into the upper, and specifically, into the friction fit of the bolt through the oversized hole at the end of the control arm mount bracket.

 

[mustangflanagan]

trying to find a pic of these "anti-clunk bushings" for the upper control arm from steeda for it they work with aftermarket upper control arms right?, its one from upr and do they go on the arm side that connects to the bracket thats mounted to the chasis. thanx for the info i couldnt pin point the issue and its been about 6 months now lol, i prob buy all new bolts for the lower control arms to since i reused the originals

 

[SD07GT]

The stock upper still has the mis-matched bolt sizes. Once you took all the complience out of the noodles, er, I mean factory lower control arms, a LOT more force got directed into the upper, and specifically, into the friction fit of the bolt through the oversized hole at the end of the control arm mount bracket.

Have you looked at the new Del-Sphere products at Spohn performance ?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Interesting! Looks like a good candidate for a street setup, and would probably work well on the track, as well. I'd personally worry about all the small parts vibrating loose, or other nonsense, and I do have a serious question... WHY would they include a grease zerk on a self-lubricating bearing? That, to me, makes no sense. Grease is shot into a bushing or ball-style joint to provide lubrication, and it's in a relatively sealed environment. With that setup, the central ball rides in a Delrin bearing, which is self-lubricating (like the teflon-bushed rod ends I run), and all the grease would do is provide a magnet for grit to get into the joint and start wearing the parts.

If somebody was looking to get away from rubber or poly bushings and get into a spherical joint of some sort, that would be a serious contender, but I don't see anybody that is already kitted up making the change.

As a final note, they STILL haven't addressed the root problem with the upper control arm: 12mm bolt diameter and a 14mm hole in the control arm mount bracket. Unless they engineered their setup with a 14mm ID "through rod" and supply 14mm hardware for the mount, then the 2mm of slop is still there. If they engineered it with a 12mm ID, then you STILL need the Steeda bushings.

The Steeda "anti-clunk" bushings are nothing more than a CNC machined disc with a wide bolt shoulder, and a little stub that sticks into the mounting bracket from the outside. The stub is, naturally, 12mm ID, and 14mm OD, which takes up all the slop in the mount hole. Simple to install, as well. Pull the UCA bolt out, stick a bushing on one end of the bolt, run it through, stick a bushing on the other side, add a nut, gently torque until the bushings snap into the control arm mount, and then torque to spec, which IIRC is 129 lb-ft, at ride height. That took me less than 45 minutes from start to finish, including time to jack up the car, pull the rear seat, loosen the bolt under the seat, pull the entire arm for inspection, and then reassemble and drop the car on the ground. All clunks were gone.

Also, I need to correct myself: I DO have a bushing in the rear suspension. The differential-end upper control arm mount bushing is the factory stock one, but that's going to go away this winter when I re-do the suspension again to go to coil overs and a few other little tweeks.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

trying to find a pic of these "anti-clunk bushings" for the upper control arm from steeda for it they work with aftermarket upper control arms right?, its one from upr and do they go on the arm side that connects to the bracket thats mounted to the chasis. thanx for the info i couldnt pin point the issue and its been about 6 months now lol, i prob buy all new bolts for the lower control arms to since i reused the originals

I'm on my third set of control arms with the stock hardware, and no problems that a little loctite won't cure... The bushings are added to the outside of the mounting bracket, so they'll work with ANY control arm, stock, or aftermarket. It's hard to describe the bushing in words, but it's a CNC machined aluminum disc, probably the diameter of a nickel (acts as a bolt-head shoulder), with a protruding "nub" that slips inside the bolt hole in the mounting bracket. The nub has an ID of 12mm, and an OD of 14mm to take up all of the slop from the factory. Well worth the $10 or so if you have clunking. When you assemble, just add red loctite to the bolt before you spin on the nut, and it'll never give you problems again.

 

[SD07GT]

Interesting! Looks like a good candidate for a street setup, and would probably work well on the track, as well. I'd personally worry about all the small parts vibrating loose, or other nonsense, and I do have a serious question... WHY would they include a grease zerk on a self-lubricating bearing? That, to me, makes no sense. Grease is shot into a bushing or ball-style joint to provide lubrication, and it's in a relatively sealed environment. With that setup, the central ball rides in a Delrin bearing, which is self-lubricating (like the teflon-bushed rod ends I run), and all the grease would do is provide a magnet for grit to get into the joint and start wearing the parts.

If somebody was looking to get away from rubber or poly bushings and get into a spherical joint of some sort, that would be a serious contender, but I don't see anybody that is already kitted up making the change.

As a final note, they STILL haven't addressed the root problem with the upper control arm: 12mm bolt diameter and a 14mm hole in the control arm mount bracket. Unless they engineered their setup with a 14mm ID "through rod" and supply 14mm hardware for the mount, then the 2mm of slop is still there. If they engineered it with a 12mm ID, then you STILL need the Steeda bushings.

The Steeda "anti-clunk" bushings are nothing more than a CNC machined disc with a wide bolt shoulder, and a little stub that sticks into the mounting bracket from the outside. The stub is, naturally, 12mm ID, and 14mm OD, which takes up all the slop in the mount hole. Simple to install, as well. Pull the UCA bolt out, stick a bushing on one end of the bolt, run it through, stick a bushing on the other side, add a nut, gently torque until the bushings snap into the control arm mount, and then torque to spec, which IIRC is 129 lb-ft, at ride height. That took me less than 45 minutes from start to finish, including time to jack up the car, pull the rear seat, loosen the bolt under the seat, pull the entire arm for inspection, and then reassemble and drop the car on the ground. All clunks were gone.

Also, I need to correct myself: I DO have a bushing in the rear suspension. The differential-end upper control arm mount bushing is the factory stock one, but that's going to go away this winter when I re-do the suspension again to go to coil overs and a few other little tweeks.

I just noticed also that J@M hot parts has there new extreme joints which are basically Johny Joints , a steel ball Incorporated into a steel bushing pin surrounded by ploy bushings .


I will have to make a decision which one I'm going to use either the Del-Sphere from Spohn or the Extreme joints from j@m.

My rod ends are transmitting to much NVH into the cabin now and for a d/d its getting on my nerves.

I would think long term the Del-Sphere would hold up much better due to there no Polly bushing to get torn up because I know those outer caps are pretty soft due to the necessary articulation of the steel ball of the extreme joints .

 

[bigwilly43729]

I think I have found the spacers that SGD is talking about:

http://www.steeda.com/products/adjustable_street_upper_control_arm.php

The 4th option down looks like what he is talking about. Think I'm going to try to get a set sent overnight for the weekend install. Thanks!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Yup, those are the ones... I was wrong, it's not 12mm/14mm, it's 14mm/16mm. Same principle, though...

 

[UMI Performance]

i have a upr upper third link and trz adj lower control arms with rod end on one side and it clunks like a mother f^&ker every little crack or bump on the road, i cant fig out what it is the only thing i can think of is changing the lower arms to something with bushings on both ends

I would guess a lot has to do with the rod ends being used. From what I have seen TRZ does not use a Teflon lined rod end... this means the metal ball is riding in the metal body. Usually you can shake these type of rod ends and you can hear them moving. We use a Telfon lined rod end, the Teflon lining is between the body and bearing and it is oil impregnated. Every time the bearing moves it self lubricates itself. This type of set-up really cuts down on the road noise.

Hope that helps!
Ryan

 

[bigwilly43729]

Since we are on the topic of the upper 3rd link, I just ordered the BMR UCA mount. I see that it has two holes for the instant center. Which set of holes should be used or does it really matter?

I don't want to leave anything to chance when I install any of this crap this weekend.

 

[mustangflanagan]

interesting now i gotta fig out if its just the upper control arm , the lowers or both damn

 

[mustangflanagan]

are the spacers those thick looking washer things

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Willy: Start with the hole that gets the arm as close to parallel with the ground as possible with the suspension compressed... Then drive, assess, and change if necessary.

Flanagan: Bet you a buck it's the upper.... Hell, slap the bushings in there and if that doesn't cure it, head for the lowers. The upper isn't hard to do, and the parts aren't expensive enough to whine about if that isn't the issue.

 

[mustangflanagan]

I'm on my third set of control arms with the stock hardware, and no problems that a little loctite won't cure... The bushings are added to the outside of the mounting bracket, so they'll work with ANY control arm, stock, or aftermarket. It's hard to describe the bushing in words, but it's a CNC machined aluminum disc, probably the diameter of a nickel (acts as a bolt-head shoulder), with a protruding "nub" that slips inside the bolt hole in the mounting bracket. The nub has an ID of 12mm, and an OD of 14mm to take up all of the slop from the factory. Well worth the $10 or so if you have clunking. When you assemble, just add red loctite to the bolt before you spin on the nut, and it'll never give you problems again.

ok i see what you mean didnt read this thread lol, can i put this on without having to lower the gas tank getting the upper control arm on was a pain in the ass to begin with. would i be able to just back the bolt out a little bit slide the bushing spacer on then just put the bolt through it

 

[bigwilly43729]

ok i see what you mean didnt read this thread lol, can i put this on without having to lower the gas tank getting the upper control arm on was a pain in the ass to begin with. would i be able to just back the bolt out a little bit slide the bushing spacer on then just put the bolt through it

You can probably get to it without lowering the tank, but it will be tight. Honestly, lowering the tank isn't that big of a deal as long as there is 1/2 tank or less in there. More than that and it will be an adventure getting it back into place by yourself.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

It's tight, but it can be done. I didn't drop my tank when I put the spacers/bushings in, and it wasn't all that hard... You WILL have to pull the rear seat-bottom, and loosen the bolt in the center of the tunnel from up top if you don't drop the tank. I think that's the easier solution, personally.

 

[mustangflanagan]

It's tight, but it can be done. I didn't drop my tank when I put the spacers/bushings in, and it wasn't all that hard... You WILL have to pull the rear seat-bottom, and loosen the bolt in the center of the tunnel from up top if you don't drop the tank. I think that's the easier solution, personally.

thats the route i fig i was gonna take, i just loosen the bolt enough where there is some play in the bracket? when i ordered my upper arm it came with these i forget if it was 1 or 2 looking thick washers are they the spacers or is the steeda bushing/space a totally different thing

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Most likely, those spacers were for the single bolt that runs through the body. IIRC, there's a spacer above and below the tunnel sheetmetal. If you didn't install those, that could be the reason for your clunk... The Steeda washers are technically "step-reducers" if that makes any sense to you. Picture a short (1/8" long) tube, with an ID of 14mm and an OD of 16mm, and that tube is attached to a fender-washer with a 14mm hole in it. Now, picture that whole assembly CNC machined out a single aluminum blank. Does that help, or just muddy the waters?

 

[mustangflanagan]

yea that makes sense i can picture it i gotta find out if the damn shop i used put those spacers in that came with it. i still have the stock arm in the box and if the spacers are in there welll ding ding we have a winner. the reason it went to the shop was because 2 of the bolts broke off in the body when i was loosening up the bracket pissed me off that was a 500 dollar fix for my scre up lol. i am gonna buy the steeda step reducers to even if the washers arent on the damn car so i can narrow down the prob. if that aint the pro its the lower control arms with the rod ends. thanks for the info the damn clunk really gets on my nerves makes the car feel like a 500 dollar piece of crap lol