Livernois Stage 2 cams

[cavero]

I'm working with my local speed shop on doing an N/A setup (decided not to go FI in the end). We were looking at doing a custom grind to put the meat of the gains in the midrage -- more for stoplight to stoplight than dragstrip. After waiting to hear back from the machine shop for 2 months, they finally say "Nah, what you should go with is Livernois Stage 2 cams".

I can't find shit on them either here or on the web. The shop says Livernois estimates them to gain 30-40 RWHP, but no testimony as to how they drive, the powerband, or how much lope they've got.

Anyone got experience w/ these?

I figure the lope will be pretty significant, going off the formula from the cam tech thread (Lope = (((Intake Duration + Exhaust duration )/ 4 )- lsa) x2 ). It comes out w/ a '8.5' which is slightly lower than the FRPP Hot Rod cams.


BTW, coincident mods will be Livernois valve springs, Comp Camps phasers, FRPP 62mm throttle body, FRPP high flow intake manifold, granatelli CAI, and JBA ceramic coated Long tubes w/ catted H-pipe.

 

[RED09GT]

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=980&sb=0

They are the Comp 127500's. Lots of board members have these, haven't seen too many dissatisfied customers.

 

[cavero]

Makes that easy, thanks!

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=980&sb=0

They are the Comp 127500's. Lots of board members have these, haven't seen too many dissatisfied customers.

That actually is not true. Our cams are all designed internally to the specs that we deem necessary for each setup and application. They are close, no question there. But not the same if we are talking about our Stage 2 NA Cams. We actually tweak the design and construction of our cams to have the effective powerband that we wanted for this application.

LMS:
Duration:
229/[email protected]
Lift:
535/.550
LSA 112
RPM Powerband:
1500-5900

COMP:
LSA:
112°
Lift:
229/236
Valve Lift:
.535/.55
RPM Powerband:
950 to 6900

If memory serves correctly, the OP messaged us on our new site asking about our Stage 4 NA Cams, but was edified that those cams would not be the right choice for him. It is important to note that the decision to go with the Stage 2 NA Cams was because the car is basically stock otherwise. Because of the OP wanting the typical performance cam lope sound with minimal modding the recommendation was easy. The Stage 2 NA Cams fit the bill. They have plenty of mid-range power, solid driveability on the street if needed and a good lope sound at an idle. We did also offer up recommendations on what would be needed to go with the original cams.

We also do not recommend locking out your phasers completely if you are only installing a larger cam. The rule of thumb is that if you are only adding a cam upgrade or boost you want to use LIMITERS.

If you are going to do both cams and boost then locking out the variable timing is needed. We also would recommend upgrading your entire spring set, not just springs. We also offer this as a completed kit:
Livernois Motorsports Powerstorm Ford 3 Valve Upgraded Complete Valve Spring Kit

As a side note if you would rather us do the limiter install for you on new phasers we can do that too.
Variable Movement Assembled 3v Cam Phaser Set

 

[cavero]

That actually is not true. Our cams are all designed internally to the specs that we deem necessary for each setup and application. They are close, no question there. But not the same if we are talking about our Stage 2 NA Cams. We actually tweak the design and construction of our cams to have the effective powerband that we wanted for this application.

LMS:
Duration:
229/[email protected]
Lift:
535/.550
LSA 112
RPM Powerband:
1500-5900

COMP:
LSA:
112°
Lift:
229/236
Valve Lift:
.535/.55
RPM Powerband:
950 to 6900

If memory serves correctly, the OP messaged us on our new site asking about our Stage 4 NA Cams, but was edified that those cams would not be the right choice for him. It is important to note that the decision to go with the Stage 2 NA Cams was because the car is basically stock otherwise. Because of the OP wanting the typical performance cam lope sound with minimal modding the recommendation was easy. The Stage 2 NA Cams fit the bill. They have plenty of mid-range power, solid driveability on the street if needed and a good lope sound at an idle. We did also offer up recommendations on what would be needed to go with the original cams.

We also do not recommend locking out your phasers completely if you are only installing a larger cam. The rule of thumb is that if you are only adding a cam upgrade or boost you want to use LIMITERS.

If you are going to do both cams and boost then locking out the variable timing is needed. We also would recommend upgrading your entire spring set, not just springs. We also offer this as a completed kit:
Livernois Motorsports Powerstorm Ford 3 Valve Upgraded Complete Valve Spring Kit

As a side note if you would rather us do the limiter install for you on new phasers we can do that too.
Variable Movement Assembled 3v Cam Phaser Set

Ah, ok. No boost in my case, just N/A for now. Nope, that wasn't me although sounds pretty similar. Wonder if you were talking to the shop I'm working with and they got the part about the lope confused (I want the drivability and midrange, but I actually don't want the lope).


What's the difference between your LPP823118 phaser kit and Comp Cams limiters ATM CCA 5449 (except maybe your kit has it already has it installed on a brand new phaser)?


-----
So, going off the assumption they were the 127500's, I read some stuff on those and decided that the 127400's were more of what I was looking for (smooth idle, good low and midrange for around town driving, not being a handful in parking lots). Do you have a comparable setup?

127400 - http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=979&sb=0

127500 - http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=980&sb=0

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

That totally could be! It was just so similar that it couldn't be 2 different clients LOL.

With a cam only application you really should not lock the cams completely. Limiting the phaser travel is far more effective in that case. A part that bolts onto the phaser face will not be as effective and/or last as long as a part that is designed to go inside the phaser veins to control phasing. We are now 4 years into cam timing control systems...there is nobody that is more familiar with these systems. We even have engineered kits that have been insanely successful at SEMA for LS, LT and Hemi applications!

The Stage 1 or 2 NA cams are solid power all throughout the powerband and still have great to good driveability. There is not a need to mess with the converter, worry about lurching or any other negative characteristics. Either way, you cannot go wrong! If you want less lope and aggression at idle go with the Stage 1 that is your best bet.

 

[cavero]

That totally could be! It was just so similar that it couldn't be 2 different clients LOL.

With a cam only application you really should not lock the cams completely. Limiting the phaser travel is far more effective in that case. A part that bolts onto the phaser face will not be as effective and/or last as long as a part that is designed to go inside the phaser veins to control phasing. We are now 4 years into cam timing control systems...there is nobody that is more familiar with these systems. We even have engineered kits that have been insanely successful at SEMA for LS, LT and Hemi applications!

The Stage 1 or 2 NA cams are solid power all throughout the powerband and still have great to good driveability. There is not a need to mess with the converter, worry about lurching or any other negative characteristics. Either way, you cannot go wrong! If you want less lope and aggression at idle go with the Stage 1 that is your best bet.

Cool, thanks for the info. In the end I decided to go w/ the 127400's. I'm still looking at phasers/limiters though, especially since the engine's got 90k on it -- and since phasers go bad on the 4.6's and now seems like a prudent time to put new all new phasers in. Any compatibility issues w/ your phasers with the 127400's? What range of travel do the limiters have?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

We only use the Ford OE phasers, and install our limiters. There is no difference between "our phasers" and yours. You want to limit around 10° of travel.

 

[cavero]

We only use the Ford OE phasers, and install our limiters. There is no difference between "our phasers" and yours. You want to limit around 10° of travel.

Sorry I was in the middle of editing my post when your responded. I was just talking about the degree of movement in your complete phaser kit, vs bolting Comp Cams' limiter on factory phasers, which sounds like 10° vs 20° (unless I'm misunderstanding).

 

[cavero]

We only use the Ford OE phasers, and install our limiters. There is no difference between "our phasers" and yours. You want to limit around 10° of travel.

So... do you guys have a forum discount?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

We do not, but let me know when you are ready to order everything and I will see what I can do for you.

-Jaimie

 

[JoshK]

I figure the lope will be pretty significant, going off the formula from the cam tech thread (Lope = (((Intake Duration + Exhaust duration )/ 4 )- lsa) x2 ). It comes out w/ a '8.5' which is slightly lower than the FRPP Hot Rod cams.

.

Well if this formula holds true, then the livernois stage 4 turbo cams I have on order are going to sound ROWDY. They come out to a 10.5

 

[eighty6gt]

127350

Using gross duration:

(((261+282)/4)-116.5)*2 = 38.5 ... nope

Using duration at .050

(((222+239)/4)-116.5)*2 = -2.5 ... hmmmmm

 

[Boone]

I'm not sure how this formula thing is going to hold up to the scrutiny of the discerning S197 forum members, but it's a fun math exercise.

Algebra anyone? Livernois Stage 3 for me = 16.5

Btw, I've worked with Jaimie before, and the knowledge, product, and service level are excellent. I view Livernois as our modular engine answer to Lingenfelter for the LS boys.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Thanks Boone, I appreciate the compliment!

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

BTW, we build some SICK LS/LT cars too!

 

[JoshK]

Any videos of some stage 4 turbo cams....

 

[cavero]

I'm not sure how this formula thing is going to hold up to the scrutiny of the discerning S197 forum members, but it's a fun math exercise.

Algebra anyone? Livernois Stage 3 for me = 16.5

I found it here and no one ripped it apart (S197 is usually really good about filtering out the bad info), so I think they'll be OK with it...
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=991053&highlight=formula#post991053

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQDRGakrjFo

 

[cavero]

BTW, we build some SICK LS/LT cars too!

Damn those are sick! Monster numbers and sounds like a freakin race car!