BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
So what do you think happened? Did you see signs of detonation? Were the ringlands still in good shape?
Kaboom
- Thread starter Seer
- Start date
So what do you think happened? Did you see signs of detonation? Were the ringlands still in good shape?
You brought it up not me, but now you will be corrected.
First off, yes I did PM you about a GT500 calibration after the motor blew up. I am interested in converting it to return style. I'm an engineer, I'm naturally curious, and after this happened I took a more pro active approach in the vehicle's rebuild by asking individuals who are educated in various subject matter. If I knew you would try to find a way to twist an innocent question into a witch hunt, I wouldn't of flattered you by asking the question.
You have your stories mixed up now. My original purchase with Lund Racing was back in May 2012, when I did the Whipple Install. Ken and I worked back and forth for months (9 revisions) to dial in the tune. There also was supposed to be a Shell URT-A tune to go along with my purchase. Fast forward to August, we were still dialing things in. Ken mentioned some of my logs were not complete and I'd have to keep restarting Live Link... no problem, but after a few days of it not logging one or two pids, I gave up and asked Ken another question.
I own a cardaq and another piece of software that has no issue reading the copperhead pcm. Now before you ask why, all you need to know is, I work with a certain university that has close ties to Microsoft and various vehicle manufacturers, so this device and software was handy with my research.
I mention to Ken, "hey wouldn't it be easier if I try to use x, y and z?"
I get zero response from Ken for about a month after this. So you know what, the race season is ticking down and I am still without what we assume a completed tune as well as a race gas tune that I had originally purchased and no sign of Ken responding to my messages on s197 or their forum. Oh well. I message AED, and ask if they could help. My back was up against a wall time wise, and I figured it would be a lot easier for them to just clean up the missing spots in the tune and write one for the race gas.
However they opened the original lund racing .cef file, I don't care. They worked on the file and basically wrote me a race gas tune based off my file. This saved me a ton of time and was a major convenience for me.
So come December, I decided I want to switch to a SCJ TB. AED does not have a configuration for this, so I install it, we log it, and well, it's not that far off. But it did have some rpm hanging issues, but STFT, Commanded AFR etc all looked good. WOT pulls looked fine, but the rpm hang drove me nuts.
Forward again a few weeks and I get a phone call from Shaun at AED asking if I had heard the rumor that he and I are stealing Lund's tunes. I said to him, no, can't say that I have, and was basically made aware of the issue. At this point I'm a little disgusted, since I was pretty much blown off by Lund Racing in the fall, had to go elsewhere to get a finished tune(for race gas) and now this crap? So I message them on their forum letting them know I am not ok with these types of allegations and would like this addressed. Nothing. I message Ken on S197 and ask him, what the hell is going on.
Ken replies, essentially saying I have zero right, sending out the file for my car, as it is his property, and how I have a cardaq and Lund Racing does not want to deal with someone like me, stealing their stuff... OOOOOKKKAY then. To me, a tune file is like hiring a plumber, if something is wrong, you hire one, but at the end of the day, it's still my toilet. I can do whatever I please with it. Sure it's their work, but they were ignoring me as a customer so I went elsewhere out of convenience.
So with the rpm hanging still, on a whim I reinstalled the 9th revision of the Lund tune, and wouldn't you know it, the damn thing didnt rpm hang. So I reverted back to that tune. Motor popped on a beautiful 68* day in January.
As far as Pro Racer, you see the other car in my signature? That's the one I dabbled with.
Grabbed 4th gear, heard a loud bang, plenty of black smoke and oil all over the under carriage. I am not the individual who is taking the motor apart, so the picture you guys have, is the picture I have.
I'm also not blaming the tune, that was an assumption made by a few other people. I did fact feel the need to correct Kdanner on his incorrect assumption though.
lito
forum member
Sorry, your car is your toilet and that is it, the tools and tricks used to solve your toilet issues are not for you to use, you just gave them to another plumber and gave away their work, the issues with the previous plumber has nothing to do with this and does not make this wrong any right.
Any tuner that invest resources in R&D will know, people that like freebies won't.
Not at all, when I paid for it, it is my property. There is nothing wrong with working from a mostly finished file to fix a few issues. What do you recommend? I sit there for a few more months while being ignored? I'm an extremely reasonable guy, I don't expect a tuner to jump when I snap my fingers, but you know what. An acknowledgement is nice within a few days, and a solution a few days after. This is why people go from tuner to tuner, product quality is one thing, customer service is the huge part of the picture.
I didn't open/unlock the file, the file is my property. If the original tuner took care of their customers, this wouldn't of been an issue. This is not the topic of the thread, but danner steered it at that. This is not a bash on Lund Racing thread, as they do provide a good product and I hope they've taken measures to improve their customer service.
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lito
forum member
You gave the file to someone to crack it, that is not a fair use of the file no matter what.
First off, I didn't give anyone a file to "crack". However the file is opened, whether he knows a guy, or got it from Lund Racing themselves, its not my concern. All he was doing is helping someone out who was on a tightened timeframe because his original tuner was either ignoring their customer. I don't fault Lund Racing though, they do good work and are in demand. Hell, I didn't think anything of it, nor did I contact AED out of malice either because at that time, I only assumed I was being ignored because they were just too busy. Little did I know they were ignoring me based upon a stupid assumption on their part.
I was an ignored customer who still did not get what they had paid for so in turn I had to add on top of my expense and hire a second tuner, not because the quality was bad, because it wasn't. It was unfinished.
What was done is no different than what you or any other tuner does to Ford's calibration. You took some Ford calibration engineer's hard work and ideas, and you used a "hack" (SCT) to manipulate it, and make it better/finished, and charged someone money for it.
See where I am going here?
Now in closing on this topic, I have no ill will towards Ken or Jon, I feel they're both talented guys. I also do not feel their tuning is better or worse than AED's, its all subjective. I do feel they have something against me, enough for them to turn their back on a paying customer unfinished, which lead me to have to go on and find somewhere else. I assume they saw that as pouring salt in wound, when in reality it was... I just wanted my tune finished and waiting for as long as I did, felt ridiculous, so I went elsewhere.
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So anyway, what am I guilty of? I'm not sure, owning a cardaq for work? Sending another tuner a file because I was being ignored/tuner was too busy? Ok. They had my email address and phone number, if they had a major concern, I'm not hard to find/get a hold of. Instead, I got ignored.
And sure LR is guilty of a customer service issue. But for someone to assume the tune popped the motor? Well, I don't know, this isnt my area of expertise. Was the file on my car when it popped, sure.
Remember, I didn't bring this up, this thread is about my motor popping and sharing some pictures.
And sure LR is guilty of a customer service issue. But for someone to assume the tune popped the motor? Well, I don't know, this isnt my area of expertise. Was the file on my car when it popped, sure.
Remember, I didn't bring this up, this thread is about my motor popping and sharing some pictures.
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BruceH
BBB Big Bore Boss 322
Are you going to tune the new motor?
Nope. I dont have the ability to convert the fuel system type to return. Nor am I confident enough to undertake it right now. I am sure if I actually sat down and learned sure, but thats not what I want to do with my time.
lito
forum member
I have nothing against you in special, I am just commenting about what you wrote you've did and what is my position as a tuner about that because as one, it affects me. I would like other tuners to do the same and have the same views or position, I have no control of that, I try to stay away of this kind of stuff because at the end it does not do any good to anybody, also, there is no way to policy this so at the end there is nothing to do about it.
Believe or not this affects everybody involved, even AED.
LR decided to cut you off, was their business decision, my guess is that weighted their options and took that decision. I am not saying it was good or wrong, my feel is that as this can not be enforced, no EULA or whatever, they chose that route.
I can't tell what happened with the engine at all, deep analysis would tell something.
I also really hate people posting in forums so lightly about these things, these things have a lot of stuff that can go wrong but is always easy to point fingers to the voodoo guy, there are some that have some idiotic agenda that I don't understand that won't miss a chance to do things like this, this won't get your engine and money spent back.
Again, I am sorry to see your engine go but as I did not shared the "is my file" concept I commented, if you were on the other side you would understand.
Believe or not this affects everybody involved, even AED.
LR decided to cut you off, was their business decision, my guess is that weighted their options and took that decision. I am not saying it was good or wrong, my feel is that as this can not be enforced, no EULA or whatever, they chose that route.
I can't tell what happened with the engine at all, deep analysis would tell something.
I also really hate people posting in forums so lightly about these things, these things have a lot of stuff that can go wrong but is always easy to point fingers to the voodoo guy, there are some that have some idiotic agenda that I don't understand that won't miss a chance to do things like this, this won't get your engine and money spent back.
Again, I am sorry to see your engine go but as I did not shared the "is my file" concept I commented, if you were on the other side you would understand.
The day you see a tuner try to push a EULA on someone is the first day of the end of their career. It takes people like those of us on this board to keep tuners in business. Without us, tuners will be looking for a new profession, FACT.
Theres nothing to be affected, this is old news that happened months ago. KDanner decided to bring something up that he was wrong about or had half the information, so I figured I'd fill him in. What I or AED did was not wrong. Lund Racing made a business decision, like you said was it right or wrong? Who knows. Facts are, they left me high and dry for awhile with no explanation with a half finished product because of a devise I owned, I use for research.
I'm not looking to win any public opinion polls, fact is, Lund Racing charged me and was paid and did not complete their work. I was ignored. I had a conversation with Ken and even gave them the opportunity to finish their work, they declined. Their fault on that one, not mine.
I also agree about the motor, who knows. When I get more pics, I'll know more. I for one do not run to blame the tuner first thing.
As far as file sharing, I am on the other side but in another capacity. I've worked on projects with patents, I know what its like to have ideas stolen. Unfortunately, in tuning, they're not your original ideas. Yes you guys do wonderful things with these cars, but at the end of the day, you're manipulating Ford's original calibration file. Do you pay Ford a royalty? Sure you pay SCT a license fee, and I'm sure they have some form of agreement with Ford, but at the end of the day, you're still using a base calibration and modifying it to fit your application.
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i think what lito is trying to say is that it is a little like copyright, without the law.
However; i think lito is not understanding the customer position that Lund could of avoided the whole situation if he just had just responded like a good Businessman should..
sorry your motor blew seer
However; i think lito is not understanding the customer position that Lund could of avoided the whole situation if he just had just responded like a good Businessman should..
sorry your motor blew seer
lito
forum member
I understand everything, if you go to a new tuner, this new tuner has to do you a new file, all his, not use others tune for it.
And that was an option, but I as the customer did not want to go through the entire process again.
I am glad to see this tuning stuff come to light. It has reaffirmed some suspicions I had. Nothing to do with you seer but the ethics of those who tuned your car last. This isn't the first time either. Said tuner threatened litigation against other forums to have similar posts removed. Total scumbag.
Honestly man, I know you guys have issues with him, but he's also a stand up guy, willing to bend over backwards to help people out.
What issues you guys have with him, are between you guys, and I'd like to make it clear, Shaun was willing to start from scratch. It was my time table and frustration with the previous incident that moved us along to the faster method.
This is not a dick measuring contest as both Lund and Shaun are both viable options.
Bud
forum member
I think both are good people and both have helped me in the past. Handing over somebody else's development, hard work, time, secret sauce that had been developed over months/years, not just in your file, is a dick move.
Nothing illegal or stopping a person from doing it, but I see it more ethical to not hand out somebody's work. Having to wait and long response times does suck, not sure that is warrants selling somebody out though.
Nothing illegal or stopping a person from doing it, but I see it more ethical to not hand out somebody's work. Having to wait and long response times does suck, not sure that is warrants selling somebody out though.
I disagree with you. He was paid in full, he did not finish his obligation. He left a customer high and dry. That was a dick move. I did not "give" a file out out of malice, I gave it out because as a customer I wanted my car to be completed. If you're busy, hey thats fine, but then you tell the customer you're busy. Unfortunately that was not the case for me, they chose to ignore me after they found out I owned a particular piece of equipment and never chose to "terminate" the business relationship. They just decided to leave me with unfinished work.
If you want to get technical, LR would fall under the same consequences a contractor would fall under if they took money and did not finish their job.
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