Finally! Some movement towards my issues...I/C Pump!

This morning I was going to do some more data logging but while choosing my pid's I heard something like a dying ostrich ( no idea what that really sounds like but it's gotta be close). So I go listen in and it's coming for the pump then just seconds later it completed shut off. I checked the the reservoir and no movement. So I tapped the pump a few times and it came back on but sounded rough.

Could this be the culprit for all my crap? Lack of power, rough idling, random misfires?

What's a good replacement for an 07 Roush 427R? I don't want the stock Bosch these come with again, I want one a little better preferably that connects the same too.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?2029-Intercooler-pump-flow-testing-results

2013 GT500 uses the stewart pump, Justin @ VMP told me they were only about $250.. IIRC.

No. It's not going to cause rough idle or random misfires. High IAT2's may cause timing to be pulled, resulting in less power. But for your other problems, look elsewhere.

Probably not going to be your direct issue. Does need to be replaced though!

eighty6gt said:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?2029-Intercooler-pump-flow-testing-results

2013 GT500 uses the stewart pump, Justin @ VMP told me they were only about $250.. IIRC.

Click to expand...

OEM pump sucks 3A.
The 2 x stewart pumps suck 9 A + 19A.

Did u see the part how the 20 + 55 gpm pumps put out next to nothing when a load is on them ? I think they are talking about the mezziere units too. (Plus the current goes sky high)

What they should try next is using 2 x identical pumps, nose to tail. That alone would increase flow rate a bunch.

Anecdotally the 20 gpm mezeire does 10 on the 03 cobra system.

That would be nice.

I currently have the Meziere 20gpm pump; I am thinking about replacing it with something else. I'm not too impressed with it and would prefer a better mounting option.

May look into getting the 4.8 gpm HD Bosch unit...
According to the test results above, it flows more than my Meziere 20 gpm pump.

How reliable are those test results?

AutoXRacer said:

I currently have the Meziere 20gpm pump; I am thinking about replacing it with something else. I'm not too impressed with it and would prefer a better mounting option.

May look into getting the 4.8 gpm HD Bosch unit...
According to the test results above, it flows more than my Meziere 20 gpm pump.

How reliable are those test results?

Click to expand...

I'd say they were reliable. At least they used a megabuck, calibrated flow meter.

Electric Water pumps are no different than electric fans and squirrel cage blowers..... you can't go by max no load numbers.

EG: with squirrel cage blowers, they are rated in cfm.....in free air, with no back pressure. The better quality units will graph the cfm vs back pressure on a graph. With NO back pressure you get max cfm. With a big enough back pressure, the cfm will drop to zero (called cut off).

Electric fans are notorious for crapping out into the slightest bit of back pressure.

(Now you know why 'electric superchargers' don't work....no pressure behind em).

Electric water pumps will be no different. The fellow took each unit, and graphed GPM vs back pressure. "20 gpm" with no back pressure is a meaningless number to quote.

Use the IC pump from the 2013+ GT-500. If you really wanted to flow a ton of water, use two of em...nose to tail. You could even put em at opposite ends of the loop.......... or at any point in the loop.

IMO, increasing the flow rate won't do much good unless the HE is capable of dumping the heat...otherwise you will just be circulating hot water. The IC extracts the heat..and the HE dumps the heat. You can increase the eff of any IC by increasing the flow rate......with the provisio that the HE can dump the extra extracted heat.

100% distilled water + water wetter would be the ideal ticket...at least for > freezing. You don't require a 50-50 gycol-water mix in Florida. The better versions of water wetter will contain anti-corrosion inhibitors. You could also add anti corrosion inhibitor's to distilled water. You don't need to add gycol.... just for it's anti corrosion additives. Just buy the additives alone.

Jimbo

Yep, I spoke with Justin at VMP Tuning; he recommended the 2013 GT500 pump. He mentioned it flows roughly 6.5 GPM with system losses.

Now, just need to find someone who sells them not too expensive.
I would love to do twin pumps, but I think they are $300 a pop... I'll stick with one. lol

http://tascaparts.com/parts/2013/FO...iteid=213668&vehicleid=382753&diagram=JC10136


Cheap!

eighty6gt said:

http://tascaparts.com/parts/2013/FO...iteid=213668&vehicleid=382753&diagram=JC10136


Cheap!

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Damn, $300 if you include the brackets... sigh

Another factor is what IC you are trying to pomp through. The higher flowing IC’s like the GT500/Roush will work a lot better with the “low pressure” pumps like the Meziere. The high resistance IC’s like the Saleen, KB and Eforce need a higher pressure/lower volume type pump.

My 2007 has two 55gpm Meziere pumps, one at each end of the system. I haven’t checked the flow with a meter, but it flows a LOT! My catch tank sounds like toilet flushing with the cap off, LOL!

At the end of the day it comes down to resistance vs. pump. You either reduce the resistance, increase the “pump”, or both. If I could do it all over again I would run 1” lines.

AutoXRacer said:

I currently have the Meziere 20gpm pump; I am thinking about replacing it with something else. I'm not too impressed with it and would prefer a better mounting option.

May look into getting the 4.8 gpm HD Bosch unit...
According to the test results above, it flows more than my Meziere 20 gpm pump.

How reliable are those test results?

Click to expand...

With your Roush IC you should be doing just fine with that 20gpm pump. I used to run a 20gpm Meziere when I had my KB and the KB's have a HORRIBLY restrictive IC. At 650 HP it was doing it's job, and those POS KB's run HOT! I cranked it up to a 55gpm unit at one point and did see an improvement though.

We have all sorts of cars running 20gpm and 55gpm Meziere pumps that run like icebergs.

I don't have any cooling issues with the Meziere...my temps are cool. Reservoir never gets hot...just slightly warm if that. I'm trying to clean up my install and figured a stock like pump was much friendlier...plus I've been reading how the 2013 GT500 pump flows better than the 20gpm Mezieres.
Plus I hate that damn buzzing sound the Meziere makes. lol

Whats the point of 1" lines if the outlet and ports of the heat exchanger are smaller?

AutoXRacer said:

I don't have any cooling issues with the Meziere...my temps are cool. Reservoir never gets hot...just slightly warm if that. I'm trying to clean up my install and figured a stock like pump was much friendlier...plus I've been reading how the 2013 GT500 pump flows better than the 20gpm Mezieres.
Plus I hate that damn buzzing sound the Meziere makes. lol

Whats the point of 1" lines if the outlet and ports of the heat exchanger are smaller?

Click to expand...

Where are you reading that the GT500 pump flows more?

My 20gpm Meziere was almost silent. It was rubber mounted like the GT500 pumps are though. Key point, rubber mounting.

You would see a decrease in back pressure with 1" hoses even if the HE still had 3/4 fittings. It's fluid, not exhaust. I wouldn't do 1" hose without switching over to 1" fitting though.

gmitch said:

Where are you reading that the GT500 pump flows more?

My 20gpm Meziere was almost silent. It was rubber mounted like the GT500 pumps are though. Key point, rubber mounting.

You would see a decrease in back pressure with 1" hoses even if the HE still had 3/4 fittings. It's fluid, not exhaust. I wouldn't do 1" hose without switching over to 1" fitting though.

Click to expand...

See post #2. http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?2029-Intercooler-pump-flow-testing-results. The 2013+ GT-500 uses the Stewart pump.

Just cuz an IC is coolant restrictive doesn't mean it's....'no good'....or that it is not efficient. A double or triple core IC will be more eff at extracting heat vs a single core IC..... BUT it will also be more restrictive to coolant flow.

On a similar note, if more fins / vanes are added to the IC, it will be more eff at extracting heat..but will increase airflow back pressure. It's this back pressure that does 'work'. It would be easy to design a single core IC...with half the fins /vanes removed....and just a single pass of coolant via one straight, large diam tube. It wouldn't restrict airflow, and it would not restrict the coolant. IC back pressures for both air + coolant would be minimal. Such an IC wouldn't be very eff at extracting heat either.....which is what we want.

The 20 gmp flow rate on the mezziere pump appears to fall flat on its face when any amount of back pressure is involved.

Two of those 2013 GT-500 pumps..any where in the loop, would be the ultimate ticket. (so would 100% distilled water + water wetter)

Pentalab said:

See post #2. http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?2029-Intercooler-pump-flow-testing-results. The 2013+ GT-500 uses the Stewart pump.

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I can't find anything to confirm this. In fact from the pictures I have been able to find the 13 GT500 pump is not the same pump as was tested by Lingenfelter.

Just cuz an IC is coolant restrictive doesn't mean it's....'no good'....or that it is not efficient.

Click to expand...

Where did I say it wasn't?

A double or triple core IC will be more eff at extracting heat vs a single core IC..... BUT it will also be more restrictive to coolant flow.

Click to expand...

How are you defining "double or triple core"? Do you mean double or triple pass? If so you're misled. A single pass IC as long as it has enough flow will be more efficient than a double or triple pass IC (using the same core). You can call Gerhard, an engineer down at Bell Intercoolers (who would know better?) and argue it with him if you would like. 830.438.6150.

On a similar note, if more fins / vanes are added to the IC, it will be more eff at extracting heat..but will increase airflow back pressure. It's this back pressure that does 'work'. It would be easy to design a single core IC...with half the fins /vanes removed....and just a single pass of coolant via one straight, large diam tube. It wouldn't restrict airflow, and it would not restrict the coolant. IC back pressures for both air + coolant would be minimal. Such an IC wouldn't be very eff at extracting heat either.....which is what we want.

Click to expand...

So is your point that if a IC is too tight or too loose it won't work? If so thanks for pointing out the obvious.

The 20 gmp flow rate on the mezziere pump appears to fall flat on its face when any amount of back pressure is involved.

Click to expand...

In that test, which it is trying to push through super tight intercoolers. The OP's, and Most Mustang applications do not have nearly the same IC backpressure, therefore you will get different results.

Two of those 2013 GT-500 pumps..any where in the loop, would be the ultimate ticket. (so would 100% distilled water + water wetter)

Click to expand...

Have you tested one 13 GT500 water pump? Have you tested two? Or is this theory.

I try and provide accurate information based on my own first hand experience and testing. Which in this case I probably have more of than anyone else in the Mustang performance world. People can listen to my advice/conclusions or ignore it. If they want to ignore it that is their choice. At the end of the day I could care less how their car works, it doesn't effect me at all.

Sorry if I have come off prickly, I am working on 5 days of very little sleep and am dealing with a ton of stress right now. I lost my ability to "play nice" a few days ago.

gmitch, how do you have your pumps installed?

Maybe I just need to find a new way to install mine.

AutoXRacer said:

gmitch, how do you have your pumps installed?

Maybe I just need to find a new way to install mine.

Click to expand...

I don't have a 20gpm pump anymore. The better question is how and where in the system do you have yours? Got pics?

I installed mine in the stock ROUSH location.



My setup runs cool...its never been hot. Even after a 20 min track session or a 2 hour road trip, you can touch the tank without burning yourself. Its warm to hot, but I suspect most of the heat is transferred from the engine bay heat into the reservoir as its an aluminum tank.

I want to replace my Meziere pump not due to coolant issues, but more so I want a cleaner and quieter setup.

Plus I have found slight moistness around the bottom of the pump, but hoses and hose fittings are dry. I am thinking its coming from the lower half of the pump.