Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT - track/autocross/street Project

[OkieSnuffBox]

I haven't driven on the Rivals yet, BUT just reading the lit, and looking at the specs, this is a 200 UTQG street tire (perhaps a soft 200, but 200 none the less), and that won't even come close to competing with an R-compound tire like the NT-01. Now, granted, the Rival is marketed to be at the pointy end of the stick for a street tire, and the NT-01 is an entry-level R-compound (100 TW vs. 40 for the Hoosiers and BFG R-1), but I would be willing to bet that the Rival will NOT perform better.... Assuming, of course, your definition of "performance" is in terms of grip, and not longevity.

Yep, these need to be compared to the NT-05/Advan/Star Spec/RE-11 type tires.

 

[sholzer]

Wish these new BFGs came in a STX friendly size. looks like the RS3s are still the way to go with neither the ZII or these having any sizes for us right now. Hopefully later down the road they release some because they sound promising

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

We got our lines crossed and 19COBRA93 asked this in another thread, but meant to ask it here - so I will bring my response to him here, to keep from junking up that other, non-related thread...

How do you like those NT05's for the track? I'm looking for a good street/track tire and those are ones I'm considering.

I feel that the NT-05 is pretty much one of my least favorite tires I have ever purchased. The grip levels are pretty mediocre and they tend to overheat when pushed hard. It is too easy to do this with very little effort...

Notice a pattern? Those 2 cars are being driven at the same track on the same tires, 6 months apart, and at differing power levels (380 vs 430 whp). NT-05s are on my "naughty list". They got really greasy in higher ambient temperatures, too. I've had much better luck on Bridgestone RE-11, Yokohama AD08, Hankook RS-3 and Dunlop Direzza SS Z1s on our S197s.

I mean, sure, the size was nice (295/35/18) and it fit our Vorshlag/D-Force wheels well (18x10 ET43) and the package fit the car well (see above). But this was just not a very grippy tire. We got these for use at an Optima Challenge event, and I won the autocross portion and placed 3rd in the track portion, but I felt like I left a lot behind. At this same road course a few months earlier, on narrower Bridgestone RE-11s in 275/40/18 size I was quicker - in the same car. Those Bridgestones were damned good tires, but at 180 TW they weren't legal for Optima use. So I was pretty disappointed in the wider NT-05's performance.

At the time we purchased these 200 TW tires there were very few options in the wider 18" sizes we were looking for (295-335mm), but now there ARE better, faster options. The BFG Rival comes in 295 and 335mm sizes now, for one. Look for my hands-on review on that tire, tested against many others, later this week.

...My advice (posted frequently!) to anybody that is getting into the scene is to stick with street tires until you can make them sing all the way from turn-in through apex, and into the track-out phase of EVERY corner, EVERY lap. At that point, you know, for a fact, that you're getting 100% out of the tire itself, and have reasonably good consistency. Now you can be certain that the tires are the limiting factor in the grip equation!

Excellent advice and I concur 100%. Learn on lower grip street tires, which have a more forgiving range of usable slip angles and that TALK TO YOU loud and clear, master your CAR CONTROL on these tires, and wring the ever living crap out of the tires. I also feel that learning car control is easier (and safer) in an autocross format than on track. It might be painful to limit yourself to 4-6 runs of 60 seconds or less on a given day, but you can learn a LOT and really PUSH the car without the potential for damage that sliding off course on track brings.

Then take this new found driver skill -car control- out to a road course... and you will be much further in your driver development along than those that only do road course events, from my experience. There are new skills to master there, of course, and some autocrossers have trouble turning off that "10/10ths" switch... and can have a lot of "offs" early on. Track driving takes more acute driving judgement, to juggle the increased risks, but this can be learned with experience.

Also, getting into R-compounds too soon can cover a LOT of driver-error and still make you look like a hero. The real goal is to learn how to drive the car at the very limit of adhesion; get it balanced on that knife-edge.

Once again, I completely concur and have been preaching the same gospel for decades. I call it the "R-compound Crutch", and I see new drivers that move too quickly to R-comp tires learn bad habits but they are covered up by the mountains of grip these tires provide. You can run "Faster" but you personally reach a plateau that you cannot break out of if you "jump to R's" too soon.

Left: Racing in the Optima Challenge on 200 TW Nitto NT05 tires. Right: Racing in NASA TTB class on 180 TW Yokohama AD08 tires

When I am working with students, be it at autocross schools or HPDE instructing, I always ask them to resist that R comp urge... ask them to stick with 180-200 treadwear (or higher) street tires for at least 2-3 years, to better master their driving skills with the added audio feedback these lower grip tires can provide, then switch to Rs.

Above: We had fun in STU class for many years, racing in BMWs and various AWD boost buggies

For so many years there was no place for Street tires in SCCA autocrossing, but starting around 2003 SCCA (finally) created the category of Street Touring classes, which exploded in growth. These classes use 140-200+ TW street tires and we jumped into the category and ran there in various cars and ST classes from 2004-2011. It is hard to give up the "R compound crack" after so many years, but you readjust and learn to go fast on lower grip tires. Our "per-run tire costs" dropped radically when I gave up Hoosiers/Kumhos/R compounds, of course.

Brian's EVO X MR running on Yokohama AD07 tires - for street, autocross (STU) and track events (TTA)

Later, with the introduction of NASA Time Trials and their points based classing, street tires had a place on track competitions as well. This made for a car that could be daily driven, autocrossed and tracked in competition with the same set of tires. No more schlepping a different set of wheels/tires to a track or autocross event, you could change them at home and drive there and back on the same set. Some folks left them on full time, while others still swapped them out to harder tires for the daily commute (to keep their ST tires "fresh").

And of course there was always One Lap Of America's events, which demanded street tires. And then Optima Challenge switched to a 200 TW formula, followed by Goodguys and many others. The $500 endrance car series, 24 hours de Lemon and Chump Car World Series all require 200 TW tires, which we have begun testing with on our ChumpCar. Even drifting is done largely on non-R tires, to better to lose grip with I suppose? So the tire manufacturers have responded to this huge new demand and there are nearly a dozen great 140-200 TW ultra high performance tires out there. It is almost overwhelming. But this flood of options it has brought prices down a bit, and gives racers many choices.

It is a great time to be racing on street tires. The tire choices are better than ever, the competition for your business form tire manufacturers has never been hotter, and there are dozens of groups and classes to compete with them at. We still switch back and forth between R compounds and street tires, depending on the event and rules. Our set-up doesn't change radically, either, but we do tweak a few things. I will continue to discuss these changes as we do several more street tire events in our S197s in 2013.

Thanks for reading,

 

[Jefro]

Awesome advice. Thanks guys. I will probably be checking out the Rivals for my first set of track shoes and stick with those for awhile.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Wish these new BFGs came in a STX friendly size. looks like the RS3s are still the way to go with neither the ZII or these having any sizes for us right now. Hopefully later down the road they release some because they sound promising

I hear you. I was hoping for a 265/35-19 from either one of those companies so I could stay on my stock (already at the stx limit) 9" wide wheels. I will be running the Rivals 265/35-20 on 20x9s for the forseeable future. That size isn't priced any higher than a decent 19" tire and I need to stay above the 200 TW number for the other events that we attend.

I know the 20" wheel goes against conventional theory and I understand why but I should still be lighter than stock and they won't look like skateboard wheels inside the mammoth wheelwells of these cars.......and they got to be better than pirellis, right?

Terry, glad to hear you liked the BFGs.

 

[Napoleon85]

I just hope they add 275/40-18 down the road. 275/35 is a bit small (25.6")

 

[sheizasosay]

I have read the tire rack reviews a dozen times on the Extreme Performance tires. It's too bad that tire rack didn't do Hankook and Nitto. The Hankook has my curiosity simply because I don't have any info on.

Couple questions:

1.). Is Vorahlag parallel on the tire rack reviews?

2.). Do you plan on doing a test of ALL the available Extreme Performance Summers?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[claudermilk]

Terry & Dave give great advice with sticking to street tires.

Once you are finding that the tire is limiting your times, that means you are ready to move to R-compounds. That's why I'm sticking to the crappy Pirellis until I burn them off, then probably burn off the next set of street compounds before I even start seriously looking at R-compounds again. For the noise feedback, the last time I was running R compounds (BFGs), I was looking the the "happy tire chirp" telling me I was near the limit. Once that happy chrip shifted to an angry howl it was time to back down a bit.

If you have a local track day group that runs autocrosses, you can get a lot of runs in that way. Here in SoCal Speed Ventures runs an autocross along with their track day in Fontana. You can get a lot of seat time that way. When I ran in November I probably got around 30+ runs in that day.

 

[Sky Render]

The one advantage to the NT05s is price--they are significantly cheaper than the other cars you listed.

 

[Napoleon85]

The one advantage to the NT05s is price--they are significantly cheaper than the other cars you listed.

This is why I'm so stoked about the BFG Rivals. They are not much more than the NT05s.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Project Update for February 2, 2013: This thread update covers the first 2013 NASA Texas race weekend we attended in the red Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT. This January event is always held down south of Houston, but is sometimes plagued by poor weather (rain or cold). I was going to skip this event, but peer pressure worked and pushed both me and Amy to attend. I'm glad we did - the weather turned out to be extremely nice and we had a total BLAST running the red 2011 GT in the new TT3 class.

I will back up a bit and talk in more detail about the classing tweaks that NASA made for 2013, which I hinted at in an earlier post in this thread. This is the first significant classing change that I have noticed in TT since we started running this series in 2008. It looks bigger than it really is, as most of the changes were mostly to the class letters/nomenclature, but there were some substantial changes to TTA (now TT3).


2013 NASA TT Class Updates - Letter vs Number Classes

None of what is written below is official or approved by NASA, just our overview and interpretation of their rules. Don't take our word for it - read the rules yourself if you want to learn how to class your car for NASA TT. These rules only span 54 pages and only parts of that will even apply to a given entry. If you get mired up in the classing though, don't worry - we're here to help. Matt and I at Vorshlag have helped class hundreds of new folks into NASA TT. We have our own "class configurator" that is normally more up-to-date than the one's NASA makes. Shoot us an e-mail and we can help get your car classed, free of charge: info (at) vorshlag (dot) com, with a subject of "Help with NASA TT Classing". We can help with SCCA Solo classing as well, but that might involve substantially more tortured logic.

2013 NASA Time Trial Rules: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/time_trial_rules.pdf

NASA classes each Time Trial car into a "base class" and gives it a "base race weight with driver". Each base class has a "base tire width". Some cars have handicap points in their base class, denoted by one or two "stars". One star = +7 penalty points and two stars = +14 penalty points. Then modifications each cost "points", and you get 19 points to play with before you bump up a class. Running below your base race weight costs points (but heavier gains you points back). Running more tire width than your base size costs you points (but narrower gains you points back). The points for parts eats up most of your allotment, but whatever you change you can never violate the power-to-weight limit for a class. It sounds confusing, and it kind of is... but only because it is so unconventional. But this type of classing is also liberating, fun to explore, and competitors can "bench race" set-ups with different mods to play with their 19 points in class. Or you can go buck-wild and use more than 19 points and bump up a class... then you get a total of 39 points (or more) to play with. Make sense? You can keep adding mods or lowering weight or adding power to keep your car at the competitive limit for each up-class jump you make. This is how the new "letter" classes work (TTB-TTF)

Vorshlag built entries for NASA TTD and TTA classes.

Our Intro to NASA Time Trial article, circa 2008: http://www.vorshlag.com/tech_timetrials.php

This means you can have a Miata with wild aero, sticky Hoosiers, and a supercharger racing against a nearly stock E46 M3. And oddly enough, it works, as there is always the power-to-weight element... measured horsepower and measured weight reign everyone in. There are not "categories" to jump up, and anything can eventually be classed with almost anything else, if a given car gets modified radically enough.

In 2012, beyond TTA were the top three classes which were always strictly power to weight based, with no more points to play with. I now call these the "number classes", but in 2012 they were TTS, TTU, and TTR. There are "modifiers" you can exploit, to get you a little more power or a little less weight, if you have say... a 4 door vs a 2 door, or use a 275mm or narrower tire, etc. Otherwise it is strictly power to weight based. When we first started racing our 2011 Mustang in TT (see above), it was in TTB, but since it came with the Brembo brakes (+2), no decklid spoiler (+4), and the CS front lip (+3), we had very few points left to use. If we had added R compound tires and any exhaust mods the car would be easily into TTA and then even into TTS on points alone, due to the SCCA class allowances and rules we were focusing on (STX then ESP). We ran a few TT events with our STX set-up and it was difficult to manage the the narrow-ish street tires (just like it was in autocross!), but our ESP set-up with 315mm Hoosiers or Kuhmo race tires worked pretty well, but bumped us clear up into TTS. We almost won the November ECR TTS class, until a TTU car bumped down their power and ran quicker and beat us. Oh well, we were still too heavy and/or underpowered for TTS, nowhere near the power to weight limit. It was what it was... we were building our car around SCCA rules and letting the TT classing fall where it may. Other than adding the transponder, a brake pad and rear aero change, our Mustang was still set-up around ESP autocross rules for most of the 2012, even when run at NASA events.

Let's look at the old vs new classes in NASA TT, of which there are still 9 classes total. Nine classes, not 427 classes, like in SCCA Solo. Just sayin'. Anyway, most classes had little to no change other than a more clear naming style (numbered classes are power to weight only, letter classes are still points based). Here are the changes from 2012 to 2013, mostly affecting just one class...

NASA TT Classing - Name and Ratio Changes
2012 ... 2013
TTR -> TTU (Unlimited Wt/Hp)
TTU -> TT1 (5.50:1 Wt/Hp)
TTS -> TT2 (Was 8.70:1 Wt/Hp but went to 8.00:1 Wt/Hp)
TTA -> TT3 (Was 8.70:1 Wt/Hp but went to 9.00:1 Wt/Hp) For TT3 only, non-OEM Aero is a 0.5 modifier (in effect requiring 9.50:1 Wt/Hp).
TTB - 10.25:1 Wt/Hp
TTC - 12.00:1 Wt/Hp
TTD - 14.25:1 Wt/Hp
TTE - 16.50:1 Wt/Hp
TTF - 19.50:1 Wt/Hp

As you can see, before there was some overlap with TTS and TTA both having the same 8.7:1 power to weight ratio. But TTA - TTF were still all "points" based as well as power to weight, whereas TTS was only power to weight. Modifications in TTS were relatively unlimited, with those modifiers for certain limitations. So in reality TTS and TTA had very similar on-track performance. Now with the new TT2 and TT3 ratios and the removal of points based modifiers, they have effectively made the difference between TT2 and TT3 more significant and it creates more places to run your car, and more time difference between the two classes.

In order to keep it interesting in TT3, they also let you choose between a 9:1 and a 9.5:1 ratio. If you keep "stock aerodynamics" you can go with the more attractive 9:1 ratio, but if you want wings, splitters or other aero changes you get the 9.5:1. Still lots of room to tweak and play ... and bench race. And since we are in TT3 now, we get to strategize and play with more aero vs more power. Kind of looking forward to testing this.

As you saw in my last "mini-post", we went with TT3 and we chose the 9.5:1 ratio with alternate aero. Hard to give up the big rear wing and front splitter after you've tried it. We had to add a few pounds, but with our most recent dyno of 424 whp, and the +.6 modifier for running over 3750 pounds with driver, we were able to get a race weight of 3775 lbs, with driver. Here's the math.

3775 lbs / 424 whp = 8.903 pounds per hp... +.6 modifier (for running over 3750 lbs) = 9.503:1

So we were ready for TT3 and maxed out on the power-to-weight. How would we fare at MSR-Houston? Honestly, I didn't have high hopes. We would be running heavier than ever, and I don't know that track well. I've driven it twice before, but once was in the rain on street tires at stock power levels and the second time was last year at TX2K12, where we had massive tire problems (some used Hoosiers I brought kept popping internal cords and coming apart) and still nowhere near the preparation level the car had in mid-2012 to now. There were nine people signed up in TT3, the biggest TT class so far, and I was hoping to crack the top three if I put in a good run. The old TTA track record for MSR-H CW was a 1:44.3, but I couldn't remember what we ran there before going this direction. The tires we were taking were dead though, so I was very unsure of the performance potential. We were also going to share the car, with me driving one day and Amy the next, so we would only get about four sessions each. Time would tell...


NASA @ MSR-Houston, January 19-20th, 2013

NASA ran MSR-Houston's 2.38 mile course Clockwise this race weekend.

After making some new number and sponsor/product graphics for the 2011 Mustang GT, we loaded up the trailer and Brandon (Vorshlag's uber-photographer), Amy, and I left Dallas on Friday afternoon and towed 5 hours to the south end of Houston. We arrived at the track late, unhooked the trailer in the pitch dark, and headed to the hotel a solid 20 miles away.

Sunday, Race Day One

Next morning we got in before dawn, unloaded the Mustang and went to tech to get our 2013 Annual Tech sticker and renew our logbook ($10 for the year). We had NASA decals to apply, two transponders to mount and test, and a hundred other things. It was quite chilly, with temps in the low 40s, but the weather outlook was warming for the afternoon and predicted to be warmer still on Sunday.

Vorshlag photo gallery: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-Events/NASA-MSR-Houston-011913/

The guys from Evo-Dynamics brought four EVOs and a GTR down from Dallas and hung out with us at the Vorshlag trailer all weekend (see our "foggy paddock" above). We had shade, lots of chairs, and lots to drink. Lots of fun was had with these guys all weekend, both on track and off. That's half the fun of a NASA race weekend - hanging out with fellow competitors and friends between race sessions, shooting the bull, bench racing, talking a little smack, and having fun.

The morning was pretty hectic for me, as I was both competing in Time Trial as well as instructing, which meant I had to go to three meetings that morning: instructors (missed it!), Time Trial and HPDE, to meet my students. I had an HPDE2 student driving in a beautiful and well prepped Porsche Cayman S. I rode along with her for three sessions then picked up a 2nd student later that day and Sunday.

I was so rushed that morning that I forgot to turn on my transponder in my first TT session, which meant I got no time. Normally that's not a big deal, as the first TT session on Saturday in NASA Texas doesn't count for competition, just for gridding. So this meant I was at the back of the grid, mired in slower traffic, for all of TT session two. Never got even a remotely a clear lap, but was quick enough to move up to grid position 10 out of 44, based on those session two times. Then in TT session three I was quickest of the group, which was mainly because the TT1 guys sat out, which moved me up to P2 in TT session four. So surely now I could get a clean lap or two without traffic...


Click above to watch in-car video of two laps in TT session four, in 1080P.

So TT session four wound up being perfect for getting fast laps, eventually. After chasing John Gross' TT1 C6 Z06 for part of the first lap, I watched him take the "agricultural line" into the Diamond's Edge corner, while I was giving Josh's TT2 car a point-by. Diamond's Edge is a tricky, fast corner where I enter in 5th gear, tap the brakes at the brake markers, turn in, let the car corner hard, then get back on the gas and brake for the tight 2nd gear corner at the end of the sequence. Then you touch three curbs through a wiggle at the end and accelerate back down another long straight. There is a lot of time to be made or lost into the braking zone in this corner sequence and John just got a little overzealous. He wasn't the only one using more than the track allowed that weekend, but luckily I didn't add my name to that list.

Saturday Results: http://www.nasatx.com/resultspoints/2013Results/MSRH_Jan_19_Saturday_TT.pdf

Old track records for MSR-H (CW is slower than CCW): http://www.nasa-tt.com/Texas_Track_Records/p2046_articleid/11

Of course, there was no contact or crashes of any kind in any TT session (there never is), and the only real carnage was John's ZR1 splitter (now a "6 piece unit") and a couple EVO motors were served up to the Gods of Boost. Some dirt and grass was killed, but nothing bad. There were a lot of E46 M3s in TTB (and one that got bumped to TT3), with KenO leading the pack once again, but winning by a mere tenth of a second over Allan Page. Three of these M3 racers all run the same AST 4200/Vorshlag camber plate set-up and a 4th entrant has our plates - and he wants shocks. All of these M3's are driven to the track and are still street cars. Very cool.

So my fourth session went well and I got a couple of clean laps, finally. After chasing Josh for two laps, I busted off a 1:42.1 and 1:41.5 laps, then caught the back of the field and came in after four laps. The tires were DONE and I didn't want to risk a spin and get a DSQ for the session. So when I came off track I was told to head to the tech shed for a weighing. No problem, I should be fine. Errr... the fuel level was lower than I had planned and I missed weight. Damn! That DSQ'd the session, but my times from previous sessions (1:42.0) were still fast enough for a class win, still with a nice margin and new track record. We went and re-weighed a few times that afternoon and added enough extra ballast in the car to be legal for Amy on Sunday. We overshot by 50 extra pounds, "just in case".

Josh Dunn was fast in his EVO running in TT2, and he and I swapped best times with each other all day on Saturday, with Josh's TT2 drive edging me out by tenths at the end of the first day (and he went faster still on Sunday). At the end of the day's racing, there was a great banquet by the NASA folks and everyone stuck around to eat, drink, and hang out. There were trophies presented to last year's regional class champions, based on points earned over the 2012 season. Then we hit the hotel and crashed.

(continued below)

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

(continued from above)

Sunday, Race Day Two

Each new day on a NASA weekend makes for a new Time Trial competition event, so all of our times on Saturday were now thrown out (except for grid placement in session one) and we had to start the day anew. Four more TT sessions were available to shoot for our best lap time in class. Amy was to drive the Mustang in three of those four sessions, under her new car number "197" this day (S197... 197... get it?), so I made sure her transponder was charged and mounted, and my wired unit was turned OFF during her sessions. To make sure there were a minimum of seven drivers in TT3 class for Sunday (to help "make the class" for better contingency payouts) I was going to hop in for one TT session, unless she was really on fire and wanted the car all to herself.

Joe D's 2013 Mustang Boss 302 Leguna Seca.

Since I wasn't racing for most of the day I took on another student and worked with a customer/friend of ours in his 302 Leguna Seca. He made big strides and we bumped him up to HPDE3 by day's end, with HPDE4/TT probably only a couple of weekends away. In order to show the line to another student, I took the Mustang out in an HPDE3 session and made some 8/10ths laps, which he enjoyed immensely. Amy was struggling with grip and was mired in the 1:45s all day, with most of her laps only tenths of a second different from each other.

Mike P taking it 2-wide into Turn 17 during an AI race.

I spent most of my time Sunday as Amy's "track b!tch", or so she named me. It was nice to spectate a bit and I got to watch some insane American Iron and CMC battles in their race group. Mike Patterson was "super-sized" and ran in both Time Trial and American Iron, with a 3rd in TT3 on Sat and 4th on Sunday, plus a win in AI on Sunday as well. Not bad for his first event since he returned from some mid-season repairs last season - congrats!

Sean Farrah (above left) was having a ball in his Scion FR-S, running in TTE (he normally races in a TT2 classed 350Z) with the new Enkei 17x9" wheels and some mild suspension tweaks. He placed a respectable 4th in TTE in his relatively stock FT86, only a couple of seconds back from class leader Ken Brewer. It was good to also see Pranav Patel (above right) in his LT1 powered 4th gen Camaro for the first time on track. This future CMC car did well that day and he was working on getting his comp license, running in HDE3.

Left: We were quick enough to be gridded in P1 in a number of TT sessions. Right: Taking Amy for some recon laps on Saturday morning.

Like I said, Amy was struggling with learning the track and kept complaining about low grip. So when I went out in TT session three, I quickly found out what she meant - the tires, which had already seen a long hard life, had really degraded on Day Two. My best lap was a 1:42.536, fully 1 second slower than Saturday. I had clear track and felt like I had put in a good lap, but the car just wouldn't corner in the higher speed sweepers (Turns 2, 6 and 7) or transitional sections (Turns 8 through 13). Oh well, we got our money's worth and then some out of this set of tires.

Sunday TT Results: http://www.nasatx.com/resultspoints/2013Results/MSRH_Jan_20_Sunday_TT.pdf

Still managed a class win with 7 entrants on Sunday, which should be good enough for two more tires, for a total of four Hoosiers for the weekend. Can't wait to get these mounted up before MSR-Cresson event March 16-17th, where I think we are running the 3.1 mile course again (which merges the 1.7 and 1.3 mile courses for a big, technical course with a bunch of turns). And I just made a deal on a pair of 31 spline Torsen differentials - a new Torsen T2-R and new T2. So we'll have a real differential in the car for March, finally!

We wrapped up after the final HPDE sessions and before we loaded the Mustang into the trailer, Brandon took a few more pictures against a backdrop of a field with some electrical towers... Mmmm.

We said goodbye to our friends and competitors and hit the road for a long drive back to Dallas, stopping in north Houston for some damn fine Cajun food at a Pappadaux. Great weekend, lots of fun, but a bit hectic with the instructing and talking to folks stopping by to look at the Mustang. We had a few from the W2W groups stop by, after seeing the times we were running (again outpacing our American Iron race group, with the same power-to-weight ratios and carrying about 500 extra pounds). Most everyone remarked how little safety equipment we have in this car, and I agree - so we're pulling the trigger next week on a 4-point roll bar kit from Maximum Motorsports. This will provide a more secure cross bar to hang the shoulder straps from and give us some roll-over protection, "just in case". I am not a fan of full roll cages in street cars, and Amy doesn't like me cutting on her street car, so this will have to suffice.

What's Next?

After we got back to Dallas on Tuesday morning, I flew out to New Orleans for two days of fun at NOLA Motorsports Park, testing tires at the BFGoodrich Rival tire launch. I will post about that in my next thread update. We have the T2-R to install, the roll bar, and a few other suspension goodies that I will show once they are installed. We might have some new transmission mounts as well, if the prototypes show up in time. These could hopefully cure the shifting issues we're seeing, due to the body mounted shifter. When the drivetrain is loaded up mid-corner, it is sometimes impossible to make a clean shift. Amy and I both noticed we were early shifting or holding a gear longer, to avoid these mid-corner up-shifts. Just isn't possible for the drivetrain and shifter assemblies to synch up sometimes, when the big heavy motor + trans are loaded up and under power.

This was the weight with me in it, as we unloaded it from the trailer... with WAY too much hastily added ballast in the trunk. Needs to be 3775.

We are also going to work on a trunk-mounted, easy to adjust ballast system, so we can get the car closer to the 3775 pound minimum weight for our TT3 set-up, and swap known ballast amounts between Amy and I, since I outweigh her by a good bit. To get some additional rear bias, we are thinking of moving the small 14 pound engine-bay mounted battery to the trunk, and replacing it with a more sizable Optima Red Top. We are at 53% front weight bias (and 49.9% cross) in the picture above, but that is with a LOT of extra ballast in the trunk. We over-shot the minimum weight to be safe for both drivers using the same ballast. The roll bar structure will likely add 60 pounds mostly to the rear, and then the larger battery relocation, then whatever weight plates we need to make minimum will be in the trunk. Oh, check out the "motion capture" photo of the '11 GT that Brandon shot, using the new modular camera rig that he and Olof built. Pretty cool.

I just ordered a brand new tow vehicle from our buddy Corey White at Five Star Ford of Plano, a red 2013 Ford F350 Diesel 4x2 DRW, which should be here at the middle to end of March. I think I just sold my 2006 Dodge Cummins MegaCab 3500, so I might be truck-less for the NASA/Cresson event. If so, we'll have to drive the Mustang the two hours to the track and mount the Hoosiers there - oh, the horror! I have two other posts started for this thread as well as the now very late BFG Rival review, so I need to stop here so I can get caught up. Going to work all weekend and write write write! With the shop closed and the phones ignored I can get a lot more done.

Thanks for reading,

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Uh oh, looks like somebody drank the coolaid... ;-)

Not to pick nits, but in TTB-TTF, being over min weight does NOT get you points back. The only way to do that is to get a power-to-weight dyno reclass from national.

 

[ArizonaGT]

That MM cage is the only bolt-in cage that anyone should ever consider for an S197

 

[GT_350]

That MM cage is the only bolt-in cage that anyone should ever consider for an S197

Drew,

Take a look at this one;

Boss 302 Roll Bar

It's marketed as a Boss piece but will work on any S197.

It's alot like the ones that the Porsche guys have.

Doug

 

[2008 V6]

Uh oh, looks like somebody drank the coolaid... ;-)

Not to pick nits, but in TTB-TTF, being over min weight does NOT get you points back. The only way to do that is to get a power-to-weight dyno reclass from national.

+1
Last years rules did not give points for extra weight
- Only adjusted HP ratio - haven't read the 2013 rules.

Terry - Unless you are typing 60+ WPM how do you find the time to post such extensive details of your events, link pictures, ECT, ECT.
Don’t get the wrong idea, I do enjoy your reads but & am having a hard time finding the time just to read the info you post. (Good reading by the way)
I’m glad you are doing so well. Mustangs have a horrible CD. - Add down force (More aero drag) -The HP per weight ratio goes to SHT. Higher CD cars are at a very large Disadvantage

 

[OkieSnuffBox]

Drew,

Take a look at this one;

Boss 302 Roll Bar

It's marketed as a Boss piece but will work on any S197.

It's alot like the ones that the Porsche guys have.

Doug

I would still want to see how the main hoop ties in to the floorpan/chassis.

I track a Miata with a proven, bolt-in roll bar in "worst case scenarios". S197, especially Coyote cars, need some serious structure in place given the speeds they are capable of, even on street tires.

Keep in mind, I'm not poo-pooing that bar at all. I just want more info.

I love the idea of owning two cars safely capable of track work.

 

[zquez]

I will pre-order any trans mounts you guys can come up with. If they're anything like your camber plates, I won't be disappointed. I put on poly motor mounts and they made a HUGE difference to my car with a TR-6060 and an MGW shifter, but a trans mount would just be the icing on the cake.

 

[zquez]

I would still want to see how the main hoop ties in to the floorpan/chassis.

I track a Miata with a proven, bolt-in roll bar in "worst case scenarios". S197, especially Coyote cars, need some serious structure in place given the speeds they are capable of, even on street tires.

Keep in mind, I'm not poo-pooing that bar at all. I just want more info.

I love the idea of owning two cars safely capable of track work.

The cooltech roll bar is a nice piece and mounts very similarly to the MM bar. I REALLY like how it mounts to the rear though. Lots of good info and pictures here: http://forums.themustangsource.com/f813/cool-tech-roll-bar-sneak-peek-502918/

 

[Whiskey11]

I am no cage designer but I would think terminating those down bars in the middle of the bar between the rear shock towers would be extremely weak and potentially result in bar failure in a roll over. IIRC those downbars are supposed to terminate at the shock towers for the most strength.