2.6 Kenne Bell

[Department Of Boost]

There is the pump gas issue. I was referring to my experiences with a 2.3 Whipple that made 553 on pump at 17psi and 599 on E85 at 15psi. Due to the inlet it didn't make much more power past 15-16psi.

My experiences with centris are that they make hp easier. They don't have the instant torque or even as much torque but hp is fairly easy.

A Paxton 1200 at 10psi made 570rwhp on E85 iirc. Same setup on 92 pump was 526.

My D1 was real easy to make power with. 699rwhp at 19psi with E85. All of these numbers are through the stock cats.

The faster you spin a centri the more it makes. A pd makes peak boost early and stays relatively steady throughout the pull. As you know this is why we like the pd on the street, instant torque.

Those have been my experiences. Not apples to apples though, different motors of stock displacement. It does mirror what I see at dyno days. The big power motors are running a centri or turbo.

I've said it before and it's still true. The internet jades us and changes what we think is acceptable. I really like having a street car that makes right at 550 or so. It's pretty hard to use any more than that and it takes some of the fun out of it due to the increased concentration required when driving.

I can see where a centri could make a little more top end charge. I'm not willing to trade that for the torque though. At least on a street car.

And yes, the internet does fuzzy things up. I don't know who is lying. The people with the cars or the dyno operators, or both. Or if everyone is just lying to themselves. Or if in real life their IAT's are always killing power. I can't tell you how many "over 1000hp cars" I have run and beat with only 775hp (pump tune). Either I have the worlds fastest 775hp car or everyone else has the slowest "over 1000hp" cars.

And you're right, at about 550 things start getting silly. 650 is getting into "you had better know what you're doing". At 750 it is just plain stupid. My 2007 is still spinning the tires at 100mph and it has some serious rubber/suspension under it. If I hadn't spent 10yrs racing stuff with 200hp that weighed 375lb I would be more than happy.

 

[Riptide]

The 2.6 is going to put out enough heat to drive a turbine and power a small city at 18+ psi.

I would go with a whipple any day 10x over before I tried a 2.6. I do not miss mine. What a pita that thing was in the summer.

 

[crownaviation]

I wish I could have given you a ride in my 3v with the 2013 tvs. I SOOO miss that setup but at the end of the day it was never going to make 800 no matter how many parts I threw at it. Now, the new gen II VMP is supposed to be a freggin game changer but still not going to make what the big Whipples can dish out.

I go back and forth every single day. I am already Ball$ deep into the Big Whipple setup so going to run it. I know it will make nasty freggin power but will not be as street friendly as the TVS was. I just have nothing but awe for the TVS.

TVS can be done pretty cheap too... with the Department of Boost manifold. The GT500 blowers will not bolt up to the Roush intake manifold and the GT500 2013+ TVS are getting real affordable. Hell, with stock cams, a few fuel system improvements and you will be able to make a nice cool 600 for cheap

 

[justinsstang]

But how cheap is cheap =P

You guys talked me out of it. Not going to do the KB. Could have picked it up for real cheap, probably would have sold my m90 kit and broke even. Oh well. I'll probably just do the 1.9 TVS later on for 600 wheel hp. Might as well not get in any hurry for a bigger blower, need a built motor first and am JUST NOW getting my M90 tuned right. Tuning is halted because I have to get my exhaust welded today. Have a vacuum leak before the wideband so it's throwing afr off lol. Just going to finish this setup and run it for a while. Maybe do some visual mods, and relax. No since in spending every dime I make on the car I guess (although I really really really want to). Better wait until my significant other gets a job to do any more big stuff

 

[skwerl]

Smart move, Justin. Spend HER money on your car!

 

[Department Of Boost]

But how cheap is cheap =P

You guys talked me out of it. Not going to do the KB. Could have picked it up for real cheap, probably would have sold my m90 kit and broke even. Oh well. I'll probably just do the 1.9 TVS later on for 600 wheel hp. Might as well not get in any hurry for a bigger blower, need a built motor first and am JUST NOW getting my M90 tuned right. Tuning is halted because I have to get my exhaust welded today. Have a vacuum leak before the wideband so it's throwing afr off lol. Just going to finish this setup and run it for a while. Maybe do some visual mods, and relax. No since in spending every dime I make on the car I guess (although I really really really want to). Better wait until my significant other gets a job to do any more big stuff

Is this what you are talking about?

http://vmptuning.com/superchargers/19tvsm90/


IMO that is crazy to go that direction with the other options out there. That is a $3600 upgrade that leaves you with a relatively worthless M90 head unit and it will still have a crap intercooler no matter what you do.

If you get a take off 2013 GT500 2.3L TVS and a Department Of Boost GT450 manifold kit you will spend almost the exact same money, it will make more power easier, it will have a much better intercooler and you will have a entire M90 kit to sell to offset your purchase. Which makes this option a LOT less money.

 

[Timmbo]

 

[Riptide]

Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatwat

 

[lito]

I thought top psi at the pump was a thing, not horsepower?

Okay, well, the kb is better than my M90 no doubt anyway. Let me ask something else. How much would you say a full kenne bell kit is worth, minus spark plugs and tuner. Includes injectors and BAP.

Is an internal pressure thing (torque/hp) more than a psi thing, the problem I see is that many people go for crazy numbers on pump and then reality hits and everything is lost, when you reduce your safety cushion to the minimum any situation out of the initial conditions you did that (even a longer run than the one you did on the dyno) and kaput.

 

[eighty6gt]

If you get a take off 2013 GT500 2.3L TVS and a Department Of Boost GT450 manifold kit you will spend almost the exact same money, it will make more power easier, it will have a much better intercooler and you will have a entire M90 kit to sell to offset your purchase. Which makes this option a LOT less money.

No wonder I'm broke!

 

[crownaviation]

The 2013+ tvs is a completely different blower from earlier versions including the vmp. The inlet is massive compared to the others. Ford finally capitalized on the tvs potential. The gen1 vmp tvs is a modified frpp tvs and is a good unit but not worth the extra money over a sock 2013 tvs. The gen 2 vmp tvs looks like a winner but the blower is super expensive (almost big Whipple territory).

Have not run a Roush tvs on the 3v but it does not have shit on the new 2013 tvs. Friend had a 2012 Roush with one. While it was certainly light years ahead of the m122 it was no VMP and certainly no comparison to the stock 2013 tvs

2013 tvs is the only one out of the three I can recommend based on performance, price, availability and reliability. Great blower period


You can pick up that blower (new or low miles takeoff) for $1500 if you are patient. Lately they have been listed for around $1800 shipped asking price tho. I bought mine new with elbow for around $2k but it was new. I sold it with 500 miles on it for around $1600 shipped and sold it quick. The Department of Boost manifold runs around $2,200 and you will need a GT500 CAI (JLT 127 recommended if you want all the potential). Few other odds and ends but apples to apples it is a really good deal

I also assume you have a built motor? Forged rods and pistons at minimum?

 

[justinsstang]

Nope no built motor, that's coming later which is why I'm not in a huge hurry anyways, gonna have to chill with the M90 for a bit =D

 

[crownaviation]

Nope no built motor, that's coming later which is why I'm not in a huge hurry anyways, gonna have to chill with the M90 for a bit =D

Yup,, that should be your first upgrade. No need to worry about the rest till you have that done first. Buy a stock shortblock and some forged pistons/rods. Tada.. then sell your shortblock when you are ready to do the swap. If you find a shortblock for a fair price that will be a wash on yours. You will only be out some machine work and the cost of pistons/rods, gaskets and some supporting hardware.

 

[justinsstang]

I've looked so many times at rods and pistons and thought about doing the same thing you just suggested with finding a used shortblock, boring it around .020 over, and installing rods and pistons myself. Would love to be able to do something like that... But then I start reading about valve clearances and have no clue where to even begin with what good clearances would be at 600-650 rwhp. Then you gotta run a different oil to match the new clearances, I just get lost in all the info lol. Are stock clearances safe for 600-650?

And its also a hard choice on which pistons and rods to choose. I'd like to run Manley, but isnt it around $1200 for the 4340 rods with arp2000 bolts? So much lol. Not sure if I should go with an off brand, or pick up uses one's.... Ahhhhhhhhhh. I got a while to decide still though lol

 

[eighty6gt]

So far I've delved out that Boss 302 rods will work. Modmax makes forged pistons for $500 for the 4.6 2V, but you need to limit/lock out the VCT's. Sounds like the latter might be a good idea, anyway.

I'm planning on running stock main and rod bearing clearances, stock volume/pressure oil pump. Ring gap will come from the piston/ring manufacturer.

 

[BruceH]

I've looked so many times at rods and pistons and thought about doing the same thing you just suggested with finding a used shortblock, boring it around .020 over, and installing rods and pistons myself. Would love to be able to do something like that... But then I start reading about valve clearances and have no clue where to even begin with what good clearances would be at 600-650 rwhp. Then you gotta run a different oil to match the new clearances, I just get lost in all the info lol. Are stock clearances safe for 600-650?

And its also a hard choice on which pistons and rods to choose. I'd like to run Manley, but isnt it around $1200 for the 4340 rods with arp2000 bolts? So much lol. Not sure if I should go with an off brand, or pick up uses one's.... Ahhhhhhhhhh. I got a while to decide still though lol

Search the site. There are plenty of rod and piston 3v builds to get ideas from. There is nothing hard about it. Provided the machine shop does their part the rest is just assembly work. You aren't building a race motor, just beefing up the parts that are known to fail. Actually the rods are all that's known to fail but we do the pistons because they are probably the next weak link.

Lot's of quality choices for rods and pistons that don't have to break the bank.

 

[justinsstang]

Search the site. There are plenty of rod and piston 3v builds to get ideas from. There is nothing hard about it. Provided the machine shop does their part the rest is just assembly work. You aren't building a race motor, just beefing up the parts that are known to fail. Actually the rods are all that's known to fail but we do the pistons because they are probably the next weak link.

Lot's of quality choices for rods and pistons that don't have to break the bank.

Are getting used rods/pistons a bad idea? Have been seeing a few pop up lately.

 

[BruceH]

Are getting used rods/pistons a bad idea? Have been seeing a few pop up lately.

Not at all. I've had used parts in a few builds. My current motor has used Manley rods and a used Kellogg crank. Got them for $525 shipped. It's the only reason I built this motor as a stroker.

Something to keep in mind are the rod bolts. If they are arp2000 you can reuse them and shouldn't have a problem. Arp8740 can be reused but it depends on how much they stretch. Manley has the specs on their site. For the most part I wouldn't use 8740 a second time. People do and usually get away with it. It's just that I've known a few people who have had them fail. One was a VW and the other a Honda. Not Mustangs but still enough catastrophic failure for me to pass on used 8740 rod bolts.

 

[justinsstang]

I'll definitely be getting arp2000 bolts.

How about pistons?

Will be probably be aiming for manley, diamond, cp, or even eagle pistons. From my research I want stainless steel rings. For 600-650rwhp, what compression would I want on 93octane?

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'll definitely be getting arp2000 bolts.

How about pistons?

Will be probably be aiming for manley, diamond, cp, or even eagle pistons. From my research I want stainless steel rings. For 600-650rwhp, what compression would I want on 93octane?

Lot's of debate here. Anywhere from 9.25-11:1 depending on how you want to set up and how much boost you will run. If you will be getting to the limit of the blower a higher C/R is something to look at. If you have a big blower there is an argument for less compression.