Poor man's 4r70w swap

For whatever reason, it seems to me it's hard to get complete info/tech on the 4r70w swap in our platform car. I feel like most guys go at it, get the questions they need answered and move on without sharing the tech. I have many hours in my research, but man, should I have many hours in a swap based around something that "bolts in"? For the number of 4r70w equipped cars it is a nightmare compiling the how to of it ahead of time.
So, when I'm done, if it doesn't step on any vendors of these (highly over priced) swap kits I want to make a thread showing how its done.
I can show how to fab or get someone to fab most of the "custom parts" and the rest is just regular remove and install stuff. Let's be honest here, the most popular trans mount adapter kit costs nearly $200 and consists of a bent metal plate and a cheap parts store factory mount, you could recreate this yourself for a 20 dollar bill, including the mount.
Again with the shifter provision, $150 for a bracket on top of the $3-400 for a shifter, no thanks.
Don't even get me started on the driveshafts from these vendors. (I believe I may have come up with a way around this problem, parts are on the way as I type this)
There is such a high level of parts interchangeability with this swap, the bulk of the things I needed to accomplish this I bought used and benefited from OEM Ford components instead of new aftermarket junk, at least at the entry level, I realize you can top of the line the build to death and use aftermarket parts.
I went the US Shift controller route in my build, so I can offer the tech needed to retain the speedo and even some tuning basics.
I dunno, just rambling I guess. The lack of info on this build in one place is annoying, I feel like we could consolidate or pin an official thread.
I think it will be surprising to some just how cheaply this swap can be done, and done right.

did you read Tanner's thread? "Natural1" IIRC he had an entire thread on how do to install a 4r70

stkjock said:

did you read Tanner's thread? "Natural1" IIRC he had an entire thread on how do to install a 4r70

Click to expand...

I'll have to look for it, it's possible it's one of the threads I've used to compile my info, I've been spending a lot of time in research mode lately, I feel like I've got this thing mapped out. I'll know before the year's end hopefully as the rest of the miscellaneous odds and ends I have coming show up.

stkjock said:

did you read Tanner's thread? "Natural1" IIRC he had an entire thread on how do to install a 4r70

Click to expand...

I actually have read it, sucks that every single picture is missing from these critical threads.

To be fair his thread doesn't really talk tech, meaning he used the "conversion" mount kit from a vendor for the trans mount install (which since has more than doubled in price) and didn't touch on the converter, bell housing bolts, starter, flex-plate, etc.

Gotcha, I was going from memory

Maybe some of the tech is "understood", there is a high level of compatible parts from the previous generation Mustang with this swap people seem to be aware of on their own when making how to threads. I haven't found one that straight up lays it out, part for part, everything one needs to pull it off.

What info / tech are you looking for? The swap was surprisingly simple for me when I did it a couple years ago, although my car was an original 5r55s car, maybe it's a little more complicated with a stick car? IDK. In essence, once you bolt it in it's just matter of a a couple wire connections and new tune then your back on the road, at least that's how it was for me. I did my swap in one afternoon. I bought all my swap parts from FB, although as you mentioned there's really nothing all that special about them, nothing that you can't make in your garage at home with a small welder, maybe even without one. I see you're going with a controller, that might make it a little more complicated IDK since mine's MVB. In any case I'd be happy to answer any questions you have just let me know.

Here's a pic of the custom FB trans mount adapter, again nothing fancy at all, just a plate that moves the bolts about 3 inches forward and about one inch up.

Here's the "custom" shifter bracket..

Thanks man, I'm finding what I need the more time I spend soaking it all up. My goal was to use as many OEM parts as I could, with some minor fabricating. I guess it seems most swaps are from auto to auto so there is random stuff that seems unclear, bell housing bolt length, what flywheel and starter to use, etc.
I was being too aggressive in my original post I'm just tired of spending money on this swap, it's 50 dollaring me to death, lol. To do it right from a manual car it requires a fair amount more parts than an auto including the brake reservoir, brake pedal assembly, the cooler and lines we don't have, shit like that.
Couple that with the prices of some of the parts like the trans mount adapter and the shifter adapter for my quarter stick and the off the shelf drive shaft cost, it's a long list.
I'm actually close. Since I have a standard car it just dawned on me that my starter index plate won't allow me access to converter bolts, so I have one for an auto car on the way.

Oh yeah, I can totally see how going from stick to auto would require a lot more parts. I just figured you would have an extra pedal but didn't think about all the little shit that you mentioned lol. I did have to get different bell housing bolts for my swap, IIRC the oem bolts were too long so I picked up some allen head bolts from my local Fastenal store. I happen to have my tranny out at the moment, so I can measure the bolts if you want, or of there's anything else you want to measure or see while the tranny is out just let me know. I had my DS made locally to save $$, it was just a couple hundred bucks IIRC. I did get the tranny end yoke from FB though, and ordered the flat flange for the rear end and DS online, they were pretty reasonably priced. One advantage you have though is I dont think you'll need a different tune? And your reverse lights will probably work normally after the swap while mine stayed on 100% of the time so I just disconnected them.

swflastang05 said:

Oh yeah, I can totally see how going from stick to auto would require a lot more parts. I just figured you would have an extra pedal but didn't think about all the little shit that you mentioned lol. I did have to get different bell housing bolts for my swap, IIRC the oem bolts were too long so I picked up some allen head bolts from my local Fastenal store. I happen to have my tranny out at the moment, so I can measure the bolts if you want, or of there's anything else you want to measure or see while the tranny is out just let me know. I had my DS made locally to save $$, it was just a couple hundred bucks IIRC. I did get the tranny end yoke from FB though, and ordered the flat flange for the rear end and DS online, they were pretty reasonably priced. One advantage you have though is I dont think you'll need a different tune? And your reverse lights will probably work normally after the swap while mine stayed on 100% of the time so I just disconnected them.

Click to expand...

How long is your driveshaft joint center to center? I think I found a OEM driveshaft that will work from another application, but I hesitate to reveal it until I'm certain it works.
I tune my own car, I have the HP Tuners Pro suite, but yeah, it would require a change in tune if I didn't have the Quick 4 to generate a VSS that matches the OEM signal.

Also what did you do for the cooler

My DS is 47.5" center to center, but 48" would be fine too since there's probably a little more room on the skip yoke than needed, about 1.5". I haven't had any issues though.

I retained the OEM cooler and haven't had any issues with that either. Tranny temp runs around 170 degrees in the blazing heat of Florida summer. It will creep up after making a full pass of course but still stays reasonably cool - under 200 degrees.

The amount of metal you have to move to allow room for the MLPS will make you throw up

She's running, the Quick 4 is amazing, the driveshaft worked and the details of tying the Quick 4 to the car went smoothly. I have to work on the Manumatic feature, it doesn't see the resistance it want s to work with the cruise buttons, but I spoke with Kevin and it seems to be simple enough to rectify.
I'll upload my pictures and the info I've found on the 4R70W swap as soon as I get through this Chevelle build, I had to do my 4R swap in-between finalizing the EFI wiring in the Chevelle.
The driveshaft for the Chevelle came in today, roads were trash but we finally got to drive it. The new Holley EFI/trans controller is amazing, 600 Horsepower was never so easy.

So I'm still trying to dial in the rear pinion angle to minimize surging from the 1 piece DS. Does anybody have any data on what it took to get it right for them as far as the UCA length and where your pinion angle was in relation to that length?

I've been driving it and making changes as I go, I haven't had the time to put the car on the lift and measure pinion angle the right way. Right now my UCA is about 8 3/8" long and the vibration is minimal up to about 120MPH, where it starts to get intense.

I'm going to be changing the UCA to a newer style, the spherical bearing I have in there now is marginal for ride quality, so once I do that I was going to shorten the UCA a little more, seems to get better the shorter I make it.

Shouldn't your UCA be adjusted in accordance with your LCA's to achieve the desired instant center, etc? And then lastly adjust your pinion angle? I'm just starting (trying) to learn stock suspension on radials stuff myself so I'm definitely no expert! In any case my pinion angle is right at -2 degrees and my LCA's are OEM length / non adjustable so my UCA is simply set to result with the -2 degree pinion angle. I've had two different one piece drive shafts (one aluminum and one steel) and neither one had any vibration issues.

I've had 2 driveshafts vibrate, so I assume the issue is in the details, adjusting the UCA has helped a lot.
My rear suspension is: BMR adjustable LCA, LCA relocation brackets in the center hole, and an adjustable UCA.
I raised the rear of the trans as high as I could and the engine is sitting on the BMR poly engine mounts that go with their K member.
It's a sort of surge that begins around 60MPH that turns into a vibration at high speed. Under full throttle runs you wouldn't detect anything until 100MPH+
I just hope it's not in the trans, tail shaft issues or something.