Advice to new modders

[skaarlaj]

We've got alot of people here that have been working on Mustangs for quite some time, and have probably learned alot more along the way than we can imagine. I was just going to share stuff that I feel is important that I've learned over the years, you should too.

• Never beat on, or go WOT on an engine that isn't up to operating temp. (I've owned several boosted, and nitrous assisted vehicles and haven't had a single engine fail in nearly 2.5 decades). I street race, track race, and although I maintain my stuff pretty good, my stuff gets used to the max quite often.
• Don't get wrapped up in the rwhp dyno game if you're after a time-slip. many times better traction, or properly working suspension will yield better gains than simply adding power in alot of cases in several kinds of racing. Plus spitting out huge numbers and then running a weak time at the track is alot worse than simply running a lack-luster time. Don't be the million hp guy that's running in the mid 13's.
• If you're new to the game, do mods one at a time to keep from being overwhelmed.
• Be safe when working on / driving your baby. We all get in a hurry to add this or that, just don't get yourself hurt installing it, there's always tomorrow.
• Don't compromise. I don't know how many stick shift Stangs I've purchased over the years when I know in my heart that I'm a drag racer, and really need an automatic. Doing stuff right the second time is very costly.
• When someone asks you what it runs say what is usually runs, don't spit out you all-time best. My car has gone a few 7.0's, but it usually runs 7.2-7.3 in the eighth. I say 7.3 but has occasionally gone a little quicker.

 

[Anti]

Yea, I always heard warming up first before WOT or beating on an engine, but I only ever had old chevy factory motor trucks and gm passenger cars. I never had an issue, but a couple times after getting my gt I showed out forgetting I wasn't at operating temperature. Now I got a ticking when cold under my valve cover.. I always warm up now... lol

 

[Wes06]

Dude we worked with would crank up, and wot out the parking lot every day. Within like 30 seconds of starting.
He blew 2 motors over a few months time in 2 cars, but it wasn't his fault.

Total idiot

 

[fdjizm]

I've been beating on my car for 9 years not even sure how many passes down the strip, shifting at 6800rpm etc... best advice is to let your car warm up. My engine has not had a hiccup in 9 years of torture and she has 125,000 miles on her.
Also know that if you're going to be power shifting your TR3650 be ready for a fat repair bill when you inevitably blow it's shitty synchros out. LOL
Tip: Lose the stock diff when you start one wheel peeling TRU TRAC FTW

 

[RocketcarX]

Longtubes

 

[46addict]

Aftermarket TBs are usually a waste on 3v's unless you're running PD blower setup.
Same for intake manifolds unless the goal is to feed a big bore, high RPM motor.
If you decide on forced induction/nitrous, you can save your money and skip the heads and cams. Unless you're going for max effort and need all the power. But as OP said power is useless without traction and your power goals will be limited by fuel octane.
If 3v, trust Lito to do your tune. You won't be disappointed.

 

[ghunt81]

Aftermarket TBs are usually a waste on 3v's unless you're running PD blower setup.

Add throttle body spacers to that list, good for nothing but a paper weight.

 

[ChewyR]

Stay away from eBay "remanufactured" or rebuilt fuel injectors.

Don't expect an aftermarket bolt on to actually just bolt on.

 

[Wes06]

Add throttle body spacers to that list, good for nothing but a paper weight.

they are good, if they have nitrous injection ports in them

 

[cavero]

I'd tell them spend the extra money to get quality parts, from a company that stands behind their product. All parts need to be replaced/serviced eventually and service after the sale makes a big difference. There's been a few times from Steeda and BMR where they sent me rebuild kits and ball joints without a hassle. And save your receipts, because sometimes they can ask for it before they'll send you that rebuild kit free of charge.

 

[702GT]

We've got alot of people here that have been working on Mustangs for quite some time, and have probably learned alot more along the way than we can imagine. I was just going to share stuff that I feel is important that I've learned over the years, you should too.

• Never beat on, or go WOT on an engine that isn't up to operating temp. (I've owned several boosted, and nitrous assisted vehicles and haven't had a single engine fail in nearly 2.5 decades). I street race, track race, and although I maintain my stuff pretty good, my stuff gets used to the max quite often.
• Don't get wrapped up in the rwhp dyno game if you're after a time-slip. many times better traction, or properly working suspension will yield better gains than simply adding power in alot of cases in several kinds of racing. Plus spitting out huge numbers and then running a weak time at the track is alot worse than simply running a lack-luster time. Don't be the million hp guy that's running in the mid 13's.
• If you're new to the game, do mods one at a time to keep from being overwhelmed.
• Be safe when working on / driving your baby. We all get in a hurry to add this or that, just don't get yourself hurt installing it, there's always tomorrow.
• Don't compromise. I don't know how many stick shift Stangs I've purchased over the years when I know in my heart that I'm a drag racer, and really need an automatic. Doing stuff right the second time is very costly.
• When someone asks you what it runs say what is usually runs, don't spit out you all-time best. My car has gone a few 7.0's, but it usually runs 7.2-7.3 in the eighth. I say 7.3 but has occasionally gone a little quicker.

I would like to add specifically on the first point. It's not just important to consider the coolant temp of the engine, but the oil temp as well. Even though an engine warms up to normal temp, look at your oil pressure gauge and see if the oil is up to temp as well. If your hot idle is still at 45-50psi, the oil isn't at optimum performance. Oil needs to be able to flow through the motor at 6,000-7,000rpm in order to do its job. If it's cool and thick, it isn't going to flow as well.

 

[Pentalab]

I would like to add specifically on the first point. It's not just important to consider the coolant temp of the engine, but the oil temp as well. Even though an engine warms up to normal temp, look at your oil pressure gauge and see if the oil is up to temp as well. If your hot idle is still at 45-50psi, the oil isn't at optimum performance. Oil needs to be able to flow through the motor at 6,000-7,000rpm in order to do its job. If it's cool and thick, it isn't going to flow as well.

Agreed. If you mash it, while still cold, you will send the oil pressure gauge into orbit. A few years back, I saw an engineering report / tech diagram / graph / chart / depicting cyl wear vs temp vs rpm. Quite the eye opener. The excessive cyl wear with a huge load on the eng, when not up to operating temp, was astounding. The lower the operating temp, the worse it gets.

 

[Pentalab]

Add this to the list. Don't do something stupid.... like using 5W-40, 10W-40, 15W-40, 5W-50, 10W-50, 15W-50 in a 3V engine. You are not doing yourself any favors. It's WAY too thick for a 3V.

 

[eighty6gt]

Doesn't really matter what you do to a 3v to try to nurture it - will blow up due to a rocker arm jumping off or the bearing seizing up - new/used/motorsport parts all the same.

I wouldn't worry about warming up an engine beyond just to operating temp. Once it's off the peg, good enough. My supercharged engine at part throttle or with any boost at all is experiencing higher loads than a n/a engine WOT. I drove it year round, even at -30C. With as hard as you're leaning on this stuff the lifespan will go way down, anyway. If your engine blows because you're WOT when it's a little bit cold, maybe you're driving a dodge? I felt bad throwing out my used parts - they looked new @ 80,000 miles.

I do all of my mods in stages. I'm just finishing the engine, trans, diff, steering, suspension, brakes, exhaust, etc.. all at once. Took me a year, not a bad thing. drove the car for 10 years before that. I expect the odd issue to solve once I start driving the car, but it's a very mild build (~600 hp) and I will get many years of driving it after that.

 

[NUTCASE]

Plan, Plan, Plan.

Have a damn plan.

I know what it feels like having $350 that you just have to spend. Those $250-$350 chunks of cash can add up and you end up $3000 or more into a car thats barely cracking 12s.

Its always more expensive to change what you did the first time because you changed your mind. And the cost of parts not being utilized can add up in an annoying manor.

Think realistically about what you want your endgame to be, or be near, and plan it. Then shop it out, soup to nuts, and see if this is possible for you. This probably will not be possible any time soon so dial it back a little and see what you come up with. This will help you stay in a direction. i.e. it is a waste to do intake and headers if your going to do a turbo not to far in the future, just as it would be a waste to put a 9in and a ladder bar suspension in a car that has not even gone 11s yet, however I wold not hold off on upgrading the stock rear axle now just because your endgame is to run 8.50s.

Keep in mind the limitations of the stock trans, driveshaft, fuel system, cooling system, and rotating assembly. On a 05-10 GT a bunch of these systems become a liability at about 450hp. So I think one strategy for starting with a stock 05-10 GT is to try and figure out the cheapest way to make 450hp and then the most efficient way to use it.

Don't obsess about minor weight reductions, save those for when you are really running out of ways to make the car faster. I am not going to list everything here because I have to log off now, but its easy to hit a point of diminishing returns on these cars where you are paying a lot, sacrificing a lot, and 15lbs isin't really going to make you any faster.

I have gutted street cars before, I know several others that have gutted street cars. Don't gut out a street car. Its just not worth it.

 

[01yellerCobra]

As far as the gutted street car my buddy is a perfect example of that. He had a fox that was fun to drive. One of those cars we didn't care about, but still enjoyed it. Had full suspension with a 200k engine on nitrous. Surprised a lot of people at the track. He started talking about gutting the doors and welding the windows shut. The rest of the interior had already been removed. I told him not to do it because it would be the end of that car. He went ahead and did it. Hated every minute of not being able to roll his windows down in the staging lanes during a San Diego summer. After that track visit the car didn't even come off the trailer. Three months later it was sold because he lost interest in it. He admitted the windows was a step too far. All I said was " told you so".

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[tjm73]

Don't fall for the remove the A/C to save weight and free hp trap. You won't free much power and only save a few pounds. On a street car it doesn't equal out. And costs a lot to put it back in.

 

[Pentalab]

Doesn't really matter what you do to a 3v to try to nurture it - will blow up due to a rocker arm jumping off or the bearing seizing up - new/used/motorsport parts all the same.

I wouldn't worry about warming up an engine beyond just to operating temp. Once it's off the peg, good enough. My supercharged engine at part throttle or with any boost at all is experiencing higher loads than a n/a engine WOT. I drove it year round, even at -30C. With as hard as you're leaning on this stuff the lifespan will go way down, anyway. If your engine blows because you're WOT when it's a little bit cold, maybe you're driving a dodge? I felt bad throwing out my used parts - they looked new @ 80,000 miles.

I do all of my mods in stages. I'm just finishing the engine, trans, diff, steering, suspension, brakes, exhaust, etc.. all at once. Took me a year, not a bad thing. drove the car for 10 years before that. I expect the odd issue to solve once I start driving the car, but it's a very mild build (~600 hp) and I will get many years of driving it after that.

-30 deg C is pretty cold. IMO, I would be using 0W-20. As far as modding goes, after setting some reasonable goals, both short and long term, imo, it makes sense to do mods in logical groupings.
IE: exhaust, end to end, do it once...+ SS. I did the WL watts link + eaton tru-trac the same day, since the differential cover is coming off anyway. DSS-DS and BMR tunnel brace + mating DS safety loop + steeda sub frame connectors done all at the same time. All welding done at one shot, same day.
Blower install + frpp valve covers and catch cans done same day. Suspension, all of it front + rear, same day. (kicked myself for not including the steeda camber strut mounts at the time, had to tear it all apart..again, pita). Misc body parts, side splitters, cdc grille, gt-500 rear spoiler, etc, done together. Any painting done at the same time.

You get the idea. Real piss off having to take stuff apart..twice or even three times.
Don't buy into solutions for non problems.
Ask a lot of questions about potential mod ideas. Shop very carefully.
Expensive, larger TB's on NA engs is a waste of $$$.
I replaced oem halogen lights with hids, ended up replacing everything from ballasts to hid bulbs to magnets, still no luck, replaced with LEDS, even they died, back to oem halogens. Expensive waste of time + $.

550 rwhp on a stock 05-10 3v is not gonna last very long, ditto with the pos 5r5ss auto tranny, it won't last 5 mins at just 500 rwhp.

I see some folks over the last several years, slowly trying to turn their 05-10 GT's into a GT-500, with the forged 4.6 rebuild + 6060 / T56 tranny. Add it all up, a used GT-500 is a bargain.

Be careful with the $$ spent. These 05-10 cars, modded, are not worth what you think they are. They are long gone obsolete.

 

[46addict]

As far as the gutted street car my buddy is a perfect example of that. He had a fox that was fun to drive. One of those cars we didn't care about, but still enjoyed it. Had full suspension with a 200k engine on nitrous. Surprised a lot of people at the track. He started talking about gutting the doors and welding the windows shut. The rest of the interior had already been removed. I told him not to do it because it would be the end of that car. He went ahead and did it. Hated every minute of not being able to roll his windows down in the staging lanes during a San Diego summer. After that track visit the car didn't even come off the trailer. Three months later it was sold because he lost interest in it. He admitted the windows was a step too far. All I said was " told you so".

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What is the performance benefit of welding windows shut?

Plan, Plan, Plan.

Have a damn plan.

I agree with everything that was said. It would save people a whole lot of heartache and frustration if people knew what they wanted from the beginning. The reality is people's endgames end up changing and their plans change with them. Some people are in it for the chase and can never get to the end. So they end up selling the car out of boredom, losing interest, or running out of funds. Or life happens and they end up wrecking the car or selling it to start a family, etc. When I talk to people at meets some guys prefer to jump from car to car and they buy cars that have been worked over by the PO so they don't have to sink the upfront costs of modifying a car and I may consider doing the same down the road. There is a sense of pride in building car yourself and watching it progress over the years. But this process takes patience and dedication, and you have to accept you may be selling the parts for a fraction of what you paid when it comes time to unload.

 

[01yellerCobra]

What is the performance benefit of welding windows?

It wasn't from the windows being shut. It was from the weight lost by getting rid of the bracing, regulators and motors, and the inner door skin.


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