Another built 3v issue..

[rdsx18]

I just don't understand why people don't use the proper tools to service their coolant system...

Use a UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit when you fill your coolant system. Thats what this tool is for. Its the easiest and quickest way to service your coolant system.

These new cars are not old school setups that you just fill, turn the motor on, and continue filling till is full. sigh

Use the right tool for the job... Is saving a $100 on a tool that will be used really worth a motor?

Sorry for the rant...but I don't understand why so many people skimp out on a simple tool like this.
(not projecting this on the OP, just in general. I read so many people with coolant issues and air pockets, and what have you.)

Because many people don't even know you have to burp the coolant system. I'm sure many people here know you do, but for instance my friend had a coolant leak so all summer he would just fill his car with water every day before he drove it, he had no idea you should burp the system.

 

[W3bb3r04]

All the GT500 guys with 4.5 whipples and 4.7 KB's are running ARP hardware and still arent at 1500 whp that I have seen. Birdoc made 1450 on 25 psi and a 4.7 KB. Snow white made around 1300 with a 4.5. Both have ARP hardware.

 

[JeremyH]

I have felpro head gaskets and arp hardware. Should I rush out for stock gaskets and tty bolts?...

 

[swflastang05]

I just don't understand why people don't use the proper tools to service their coolant system...

Use a UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit when you fill your coolant system. Thats what this tool is for. Its the easiest and quickest way to service your coolant system.

These new cars are not old school setups that you just fill, turn the motor on, and continue filling till is full. sigh

Use the right tool for the job... Is saving a $100 on a tool that will be used really worth a motor?

Sorry for the rant...but I don't understand why so many people skimp out on a simple tool like this.
(not projecting this on the OP, just in general. I read so many people with coolant issues and air pockets, and what have you.)

Also, I would not use a Felpro head gasket, stick to OEM Ford gaskets.
Never been a fan of ARP head studs either...OEM head bolts have proven themselves to over 1,500WHP.

Interesting this tool looks similar to the leak detectors you can "borrow" from the auto parts stores for free.

 

[P-51 Performance]

I just don't understand why people don't use the proper tools to service their coolant system...

Use a UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit when you fill your coolant system. Thats what this tool is for. Its the easiest and quickest way to service your coolant system.

These new cars are not old school setups that you just fill, turn the motor on, and continue filling till is full. sigh

Use the right tool for the job... Is saving a $100 on a tool that will be used really worth a motor?

Sorry for the rant...but I don't understand why so many people skimp out on a simple tool like this.
(not projecting this on the OP, just in general. I read so many people with coolant issues and air pockets, and what have you.)

Also, I would not use a Felpro head gasket, stick to OEM Ford gaskets.
Never been a fan of ARP head studs either...OEM head bolts have proven themselves to over 1,500WHP.

i had no idea i had to do this. ill def be doing it this time around..but do you agree the issue was caused by the air pockets?

 

[BruceH]

I just don't understand why people don't use the proper tools to service their coolant system...

Use a UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit when you fill your coolant system. Thats what this tool is for. Its the easiest and quickest way to service your coolant system.

These new cars are not old school setups that you just fill, turn the motor on, and continue filling till is full. sigh

Use the right tool for the job... Is saving a $100 on a tool that will be used really worth a motor?

Sorry for the rant...but I don't understand why so many people skimp out on a simple tool like this.
(not projecting this on the OP, just in general. I read so many people with coolant issues and air pockets, and what have you.)

Also, I would not use a Felpro head gasket, stick to OEM Ford gaskets.
Never been a fan of ARP head studs either...OEM head bolts have proven themselves to over 1,500WHP.

FYI Felpro are the same as stock. The last time I checked stock Ford gaskets were made by felpro, cometic, and one other company I can't remember.

The most economical head gaskets come from the FRPP head changing kit.

I'm very curious as to where the 1500rwhp is coming from? It's incredibly difficult to get any motor past 1000rwhp imo. In fact many have had a hell of a time passing 800. Usually they get so fed up trying that they sell everything and buy a prius.

Just my opinion but far too many people with no experience throw out all kinds of bs.

I like the tty hardware because it's impossible to overtorque and cause stress, fractures, or both. I think the tty bolts Ford uses are more expensive than using a stud would be but it provides a greater degree of reliability due to the exacting torque application. We almost never hear of blown head gaskets in modern motors and I think this is part of the reason along with better machining.

It's not a popular opinion but the results speak for themselves. I've been of the opinion that if you need studs then you are also going to need lockwire o rings and soft copper gaskets.

I've never done more than fill, run with the cap off, refill and cap when it comes to coolant systems. Been doing it that way for about 40 years with a variety of motors from tractors to cars, never had an issue and can't really see where anyone would need a machine for home use. Maybe if I ever had an issue I'd think differently.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how an air pocket would break a block. I'd think that the cap would blow off way before a block would break if pressure was that great.

 

[eighty6gt]

I'm very curious as to where the 1500rwhp is coming from? It's incredibly difficult to get any motor past 1000rwhp imo. In fact many have had a hell of a time passing 800. Usually they get so fed up trying that they sell everything and buy a prius.

LOL... or a bicycle/unicycle.

 

[RED09GT]

I won't spend $100 for a tool to speed up the process of putting coolant in a car. I haven't had a problem with any of my vehicles, fill the tank, massage the hoses, fill some more, massage again, rinse, repeat.
If I owned a shop and time was money, maybe.

 

[tigerhonaker]

FYI Felpro are the same as stock. The last time I checked stock Ford gaskets were made by felpro, cometic, and one other company I can't remember.

The most economical head gaskets come from the FRPP head changing kit.

I'm very curious as to where the 1500rwhp is coming from? It's incredibly difficult to get any motor past 1000rwhp imo. In fact many have had a hell of a time passing 800. Usually they get so fed up trying that they sell everything and buy a prius.

Just my opinion but far too many people with no experience throw out all kinds of bs.

I like the tty hardware because it's impossible to overtorque and cause stress, fractures, or both. I think the tty bolts Ford uses are more expensive than using a stud would be but it provides a greater degree of reliability due to the exacting torque application. We almost never hear of blown head gaskets in modern motors and I think this is part of the reason along with better machining.

It's not a popular opinion but the results speak for themselves. I've been of the opinion that if you need studs then you are also going to need lockwire o rings and soft copper gaskets.

I've never done more than fill, run with the cap off, refill and cap when it comes to coolant systems. Been doing it that way for about 40 years with a variety of motors from tractors to cars, never had an issue and can't really see where anyone would need a machine for home use. Maybe if I ever had an issue I'd think differently.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how an air pocket would break a block. I'd think that the cap would blow off way before a block would break if pressure was that great.

Bruce,

This was another post of your's that stood out to me in a positive way.
(No real surprise actually)
When my B-302 was originally built at Brenspeed by Kent Nine they used the TTY Ford hardware.
That was way back in Jan 06-2011.
Years later Brenspeed did some major changes to the engine including the Ford Racing Heads, Roush, etc.
So once again I asked Brent to go with the ARP head-bolts etc.
I had also ask Brent to do that the 1st time when Kent built it Jan 2011.
Honestly I could not recall what the heck Brent told me as to why they did not go with the ARP versus the Ford TTY.
My memory is not that good after 4-plus yrs. had passed so I brought it up again.
This time I listened very closely to what he had to say on why they don't use ARP.
This is not going to be exact but in general with my own words.
Terry we don't use the ARP because they offer No-Ability to stretch between the block & heads.
It's much better to have to simply reinstall a new set of Head gaskets than to have a broken block or heads.
That's not exact and sure is not Brent's exact verbage but it does say in general what the reason was they don't use ARP bolts.
So I told Brent do it the way you see fit.
I have read so much on the internet about people saying don't use Ford TTY use only ARP that's why I asked you again.
I think your right on those 1,000 & 1,500 RWHP cars.
Especially when you read they are street cars.
Mine right now at the rear wheel is in the 740 to 750 range at the rear wheels.
I'll just say this the best way I can as a layman.
I'm not in anyway a tech and can't built crap.
But I do think the overall engine in my Bullitt is what I think is pretty bad ass.
It to me has a lot of high tech components and it works very well.
But it is a heck of a very long ways from even an 800 RWHP car.
(I'm not referring to drag cars only)
I'm referring to cars you get in, start up, warm up, and drive anywhere in the USA with no worries.
So when I have read the post here by Bruce that IMO does know what the heck he is talking about I agree.
Also I'll add this regarding my Mustang it has right now 53,000 miles on it.
It is a 2008 Bullitt Mustang that has been raced by Brenspeed and many-many-times by me.
As I said above the built B-302 SC engine went in way back in Jan 2011.
With all the miles and racing on this engine there has not been a blown head gasket or anything like that happening to it.
The only thing that has happened to it was the stock cam follower coming loose.
That was with me pulling out of a local business onto the street with basically it idling so I didn't rub anything under the car.
I have not posted anything as I have read numerous threads/posts on all the different problems members have had with building or after they have built their engines.
I just do-not really get it to be honest what and why people have all the problems they do with very high dollar builds.
I have kept reading and hoping I might eventually catch on to what is really the difference in mine and these other builds.

In fact many have had a hell of a time passing 800. Usually they get so fed up trying that they sell everything and buy a Prius.

Bruce I have seen that exact same thing take place right here on this site.
The guy (Joe Roberts) from I think Montgomery, AL. that had the Yellow GT Mustang.
Brenspeed did the B-302 and Joe wanted some wild RWHP and it fell short.
So he basically then redid the complete engine and went with a huge supercharger.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99453&highlight=joe+roberts
He finally got to 888.4 RWHP & 879.7 Torque.
What did he do after spending all that money and time ???
Put it up for sell and finally some dealer as I recall bought it for pennies on the dollar.
I went and met Joe in person and saw that Mustang also.
Here is what Joe told me when we were discussing our two Mustangs.
Terry mine is now nothing but a hobby car and I don't trust it to even drive it locally anymore.
Soon after that I saw on here he put it up for sell.
So Bruce I know exactly what you are saying and it is true.
Brent and I talking to one another has told me that exact same thing years ago about guys going crazy with their builds.
He basically said, Terry they don't know when to stop and the next thing they go so far the Mustang they have is no longer even drivable.
Then they get disillusioned and put it up for sell.

I think with my limited technical knowledge and just plain Ole-Common-Sense people do go overboard.
They read on the internet and think man I need this and that and I better do this and that when in reality it's just not true.

Here is a picture of the 1st Brenspeed built B-302 SC engine back in Jan 2011.




Look at this picture closely that me and Kent are holding up and you can see the date.





Terry

 

[BruceH]

It's not a popular opinion and some very smart people don't recommend it. I'm not claiming to be anything more than a man with a misdirected hobby. I've had a few of these hobbies and in the end it always comes down to do what works for most people.

A nice thing about mod motors is they don't need a whole lot of rework or even special parts to handle a good amount of hp. However, people coming from other platforms or listening to smart folks from 20 years ago will still do everything that was necessary to allow for a lesser quality and engineering powerplant to make power. I even read someone bringing up a billet block. I'm fairly certain that there is no need for a mod motor billet block, if there is someone needs to tell John Mihovitz, lol.

 

[P-51 Performance]

alright so i had got my short block from the machine shop back in january put it all together. so far i have got 760 miles on the new engine... iv been getting a little cloud of blue smoke out my exhaust every time i start it up, EXCEPT the very first time i turn it on for the day or after letting it sit for acouple of hours. i looked at my plugs and #5,7,8 have a little bit of oil on them. Did a compression check on 5,6,7,8 and they all checked out good. im thinking its the valve seals? would valve seals effect compression and show low compression? I searched other threads and found alot of diffrent answers.

 

[AutoXRacer]

What rings and pistons do you have?
How did you break in the motor?

 

[Wes06]

Seals are behind the valves and should only keep oil from either entering the intake or exhaust and should effect compression in any way.

Hope it's figured out quickly

 

[P-51 Performance]

Seals are behind the valves and should only keep oil from either entering the intake or exhaust and should effect compression in any way.

Hope it's figured out quickly

thought so, so it it shows good compression that rules out rings and seals?

What rings and pistons do you have?
How did you break in the motor?

total seal ss, manley pistions 2618 material. straight 30W valvoline and drove it on the freeway never any traffic, i would give it some load and back off everyonce in awhile.

 

[Wes06]

The seats would effect it, but seals are past that so no way to cause low compression. But if it's leaking they should cause smoke

 

[AutoXRacer]

thought so, so it it shows good compression that rules out rings and seals?


total seal ss, manley pistions 2618 material. straight 30W valvoline and drove it on the freeway never any traffic, i would give it some load and back off everyonce in awhile.

Highway is not a good break-in method... I guess if there are no hills where you can really load the car, I guess highway is OK in a high gear.

The only way to know for sure is to do a leak-down test...its the only one that will tell you if your ring seal is bad. Although its not 100% as I had one bad cylinder that got washed down and lost its seal...but leak-down tests did not show it.

Really your only sure way to know is if you are burning oil... If the oil level on your dipstick is decreasing within 1000 miles. Also if you have catch cans, you will get a lot of blow-by "product"/fluid.

Thats been my tell-tell signs when everything else has not shown it.

 

[QuickShift281]

I just don't understand why people don't use the proper tools to service their coolant system...

Use a UView 550000 Airlift Cooling System Leak Checker and Airlock Purge Tool Kit when you fill your coolant system. Thats what this tool is for. Its the easiest and quickest way to service your coolant system.

These new cars are not old school setups that you just fill, turn the motor on, and continue filling till is full. sigh

Use the right tool for the job... Is saving a $100 on a tool that will be used really worth a motor?

Sorry for the rant...but I don't understand why so many people skimp out on a simple tool like this.
(not projecting this on the OP, just in general. I read so many people with coolant issues and air pockets, and what have you.)

Also, I would not use a Felpro head gasket, stick to OEM Ford gaskets.
Never been a fan of ARP head studs either...OEM head bolts have proven themselves to over 1,500WHP.

A little late to the party (sorry about that).

As far as the airlift tool goes; it is well worth the money and the best way to fill a cooling system. Like AutoX mentioned, it doesn't make much sense to skimp on the tool when a engine could be at risk.

On the ARP hardware, I don't think that had anything to do with the failure. If the torque sequence was done correctly it should not have any impact. ARP makes great product and I know many engine builders who prefer using ARP hardware over the TTY Ford Motor Company hardware. (Just my .02)

Lastly, good luck with the rebuild. Also, please find a drag strip, I don't mean to kick anyone while they are down.

 

[P-51 Performance]

The seats would effect it, but seals are past that so no way to cause low compression. But if it's leaking they should cause smoke

read that wrong the first time. Understood now. Thanks

Highway is not a good break-in method... I guess if there are no hills where you can really load the car, I guess highway is OK in a high gear.

The only way to know for sure is to do a leak-down test...its the only one that will tell you if your ring seal is bad. Although its not 100% as I had one bad cylinder that got washed down and lost its seal...but leak-down tests did not show it.

Really your only sure way to know is if you are burning oil... If the oil level on your dipstick is decreasing within 1000 miles. Also if you have catch cans, you will get a lot of blow-by "product"/fluid.

Thats been my tell-tell signs when everything else has not shown it.

if it was a ring i would get blue smoke all the time,epecially under load right? Which im not getting. But i will do a leak down next tomorrow to be sure.

A little late to the party (sorry about that).

As far as the airlift tool goes; it is well worth the money and the best way to fill a cooling system. Like AutoX mentioned, it doesn't make much sense to skimp on the tool when a engine could be at risk.

On the ARP hardware, I don't think that had anything to do with the failure. If the torque sequence was done correctly it should not have any impact. ARP makes great product and I know many engine builders who prefer using ARP hardware over the TTY Ford Motor Company hardware. (Just my .02)

Lastly, good luck with the rebuild. Also, please find a drag strip, I don't mean to kick anyone while they are down.

yeah had no idea that tool was even necessary, in all the build threads i read non of these where ever brought up. So i just thought pour till its full run it, fill again...done.

 

[AutoXRacer]

if it was a ring i would get blue smoke all the time,epecially under load right? Which im not getting. But i will do a leak down next tomorrow to be sure.

yeah had no idea that tool was even necessary, in all the build threads i read non of these where ever brought up. So i just thought pour till its full run it, fill again...done.

I all my cases, which is twice, I had no smoke what so ever!! No smoke on startup, no smoke in WOT, nothing.

The first build had cats, so the cats burnt whatever little oil was getting by; that build all 8 cylinders were washed down. My second build, no cats, but no smoke either; only one cylinder washed down.

I will never service a late model coolant system without the Airlift tool...its just a no brainer...service it one time, you don't have to worry about it. And its a tool that gets used...its not one of these one time use tools.

 

[P-51 Performance]

So drove the car today to warm up the rings for the leak down, i parked the car and revved it slowly no smoke during the rev, after the rev smoke came out seconds later..im thinking valve gasket?. Did a leak down on #5 and air was coming out the oil fill neck.. are these related to each other? I did a leak down on #2 which didnt have any oil on the plug and no air came out. Does this mean what i think it means..