Brake Pad Recommendations for Track Use

[ddd4114]

I know this has been covered before, but I'd still like to get some opinions from those of you who track your cars.

I have a 2011 Mustang GT (standard brakes), and I did my first track day at Nelson Ledges earlier this summer. I made the mistake of running the stock pads and fluid, which I regretted after 2-3 laps when the brake pedal sunk to the floor, and driving home that night was actually a little scary.

I recently did an HPDE at Mid Ohio, and after learning my lesson the hard way last time, I replaced the fluid and pads. The rotor thickness was still well within spec, so I just prepped them with Scotch-Brite and brake cleaner and reused them. I wanted something that wouldn't fade but would still be somewhat streetable since I'd be driving with them installed to and from the track. After researching for a while, I went with ATE Superblue fluid and Hawk HT-10 pads (on all corners). They were certainly a lot better. I got only a little fade after each 20-min session, and braking feel was completely recovered after everything cooled off.

I just pulled the pads off, and the front pads were completely shot. Most of the pad material is gone, and chunks of it are missing around the edges. The rear pads still have a decent amount of meat, but they look like they were badly overheated to me. Chunks are missing around the edges, and the spring steel fell off the pads as soon as I removed them.

What do you guys suggest for track-only pads? I'm still running the factory all-season tires, and I'm planning to burn through them before buying something more aggressive. I don't really care about dust, noise, or cold bite since I'm only going to have them installed right before events, and I'll remove them right after events.

Another concern is the expense. I really didn't plan on burning through ~$200 in brake pads in one weekend, but if that's the price to pay, I guess I'll have to suck it up. Could buying more expensive pads actually be cheaper in the long run if they don't wear as quickly?

Thanks.

 

[Pumpkinfish]

You should also plan for brake ducts. These cars are heavy and can really benefit from ducts.

 

[VTXFrank]

Hawk HPS+ pads. NOT the Hawk HPS. Make sure you get the Plus pads. They hold out a lot longer and resist fade one hell of a lot better than the HPS. At a minimum, have the HPS+ pads up front and HPS out back.

 

[ddd4114]

You should also plan for brake ducts. These cars are heavy and can really benefit from ducts.

Yeah, after seeing the carnage, I think front ducts are pretty much a necessity.

Hawk HPS+ pads. NOT the Hawk HPS. Make sure you get the Plus pads. They hold out a lot longer and resist fade one hell of a lot better than the HPS. At a minimum, have the HPS+ pads up front and HPS out back.

Aren't the HT-10 pads designed to handle more abuse than the HP+ pads?

 

[Red06GT]

ddd414,

I use Cobalt Friction XR2 pads front and back and get around 4 - 5 track days on a set of fronts a few more on the rears, especially when I remember to turn off traction control ;-). I'm also running R-Comp tires (BFG R1). They wear well down to ~ 1/4" and I don't experience any edge cracking with them. I am also too lazy to change pads at the track so I drive to and from the track with them on (2 - 2 1/2 hours on the expressway in most cases). I've driven all the way to Calabogie and back from Southeastern Michigan, almost 1000 miles, for a two day event and they behave well on the street (aside from squealing like a stuck pig). They are a bit more expensive than Hawk pads but have a huge operating heat range (100 - 1600 deg F).

I think you are using the brakes too much by either initiating too early and riding the brakes too long or starting too late and trying to get your braking all done at once. Were you into the ABS a lot while braking? Either way, you're building up too much heat and causing the pads to fade/fail. Try to find an instructor or someone with a lot of track experience to ride with you and check your braking technique. You want to get your braking done as quickly as possible (without slamming the nose of your car to the ground) and get off them so the system has time to cool/recover before the next corner. There is a lot of technique involved and working with someone with some experience will definitely help.

Ducts are a benefit but so is learning proper braking technique.

I'll be at Mid-Ohio next month and can hardly wait. Just need good weather...

 

[ddd4114]

Thanks for the input. My braking technique could certainly use some work, so I'll try to focus on that next time I'm out. I wasn't hitting ABS that much, but I was close to it. I wanted to leave a buffer for screw ups.

 

[VTXFrank]

Aren't the HT-10 pads designed to handle more abuse than the HP+ pads?

I believe so, but they aren't very good on the street from my experience. If you're going to change out pads at the track, then by all means, go for the HT-10's. But if you want to DD your car and show up at a track with the HP+ pads, and not have to change pads, then you can.

 

[argonaut]

Relatively new driver, street tires, ruined a set of ht-10 in one day. Doesn't sound right. Seriously look at your braking style. Those pads should last you several days. You are turning traction control off...correct?

Carbotech XP10 is a favorite of many. Hawk DTC60 or 70 are popular as well.

Just so we are clear - all track pads will perform on the street just fine, there is no danger in them. The drawback is noise and dust, both of which track pads produce in prodigious quantities.

 

[ddd4114]

It was a two-day event, and yes, traction control was turned off. Even still, I was surprised to see the front pads so badly worn.

 

[TLeroux]

ddd4114.your braking was fine. For the fronts, ducting is a very good idea, at least remove the dust shields to let more air at the rotors. Your front pads shouldn't have gone completely in the two days on the track especially considering not all the sessions were dry. A few questions, did you bed the brakes in before you got to the track? Second, how much material is left on the front pads?

As for the rears, they should be fine some of the edges being a bit rough is no big deal. I also don't think you have to worry about having overheated the pads or rotors, you can smell them when they get hot and I didn't smell your brakes getting hot. The spring clips popping off isn't that unusual, I've knocked them off fresh pads before.

Try bedding in the fronts and cooling the rotors and they should behave better. I'm driving with DTC-60s in front and HT-10s in the rear on R-comps and I have no problem with the HT-10s in the rear. On the fronts I go through 2-3 sets of pads a season.

How are the tires doing, I know you were starting to get some pretty good wear on the outsides. You may want to look into some camber adjustment before you get your next set of grippier tires.

 

[ddd4114]

Hi Terry

I did bed in the pads after installing them. I'm not sure what normal street driving does to the pad material on the rotors though. My drive to and from the track had some traffic but not much.

The front pads have about 3/16" of material remaining on them. The rears only lost ~3/16" of material.

The tires definitely took some abuse, but fortunately, they didn't wear nearly as much as the brake pads. The tread is still pretty deformed and still has some foreign rubber stuck to it. I'll definitely have to look into camber plates, especially since I'll get more body roll with better tires.

 

[STEVE_POE]

get brake ducts and not the crap fr 2" stuff .Get yourself some 3 or 4" ducts. run the dt series pads and run the same front and back . the abs doesn't like different pad compund.

run the HAWK dt70 front and back you will be fine and they will last a few race weekends.

note these are not street pads put them on at the track and put the others back on to go home .

 

[pcdrj]

....
run the HAWK dt70 front and back you will be fine and they will last a few race weekends.

note these are not street pads put them on at the track and put the others back on to go home .

Also, they don't mix well with other pads so you'll want to keep a spare set of rotors for the track.

 

[Sleeper_08]

I also use Carbotech XP-10s front and rear and have just finished my 4th event and there is still pad there. I am running the Brembos on the front and have 3 inch ducts. The fluid is ATE.

The Carbotech pads don't like other pads so I put them in the spring and replace as required during the season. Yes they do squeal like a stuck pig and in city traffic it gets me lots of attention.

The Carbotech pads are also rotor friendly.

 

[ddd4114]

Brake pads are interchangeable between 2005+ Mustangs I assume? I looked at Carbotech's site, and I didn't see anything listed for the 2010+ models.

I forgot to mention that too, but my rotors are also shot. I have some decent sized grooves in the fronts.

I don't mind the squealing... that's what the radio is for.

 

[Sleeper_08]

Brake pads are interchangeable between 2005+ Mustangs I assume? I looked at Carbotech's site, and I didn't see anything listed for the 2010+ models.

I forgot to mention that too, but my rotors are also shot. I have some decent sized grooves in the fronts.

I don't mind the squealing... that's what the radio is for.

Give Carbotech a call.

They are very helpful.

 

[TheKurgan]

Give Carbotech a call.

They are very helpful.

+1 Just do this. I'm not sure if they are the same size as 05 pads, but Carbotech can make them for you if not.

 

[SleeptGT904]

I don't think this was mentioned, but a good idea is to take your dust shields off. It is still okay for DD use. Just might have to break out a brush and bucket to keep em clean a little more often then normal, but that takes less then 5 mins to do.

 

[knownukes]

You will see things change as you progress in your driving. As your experience increases, so will your speed and the stress on your braking system. I strongly suggest brake ducts. I run DTC-70's in the front and 60's in the rear in a 08 GT-500 Super Snake with the Baer 6 piston calipers f & r. Once you start carrying a lot of speed with these heavy cars, rotorswill be your next issue. I run about an event a month and go through 2 sets of rotors per season. I use Brembo LCF 600 Plus brake fluid and don't have any issues with fade on fast tracks like Sebring and VIR.

BJ

 

[ddd4114]

Are you just using OEM Ford rotors?


Thanks everyone for the advise.