Brakes question/clarification

[hunterwiley]

As another data point, I'll post my experience as a racer in American Iron. My 05 car runs 14" stoptech brakes. The replacement rings are $500 a pair, not cheap but there are many more expensive. On my old fox AI car, I initially ran the stock rotors with the smaller Brembo calipers, and found the NAPA gold rotors to be about the best of the "stock" rotors. I eventually swapped to the 13" stoptech kit with the 2pc rotors, and found my rotors would last an entire season instead of 2 weekends on the stockers. I've always run cooling ducts, with 3" blowers in the ducts. I got 'em hot too, with a race weight of 3200lbs... DTC60's up front, DTC70s in the rear.



I just swapped new pads onto my 05 car after running last weekend at VIR. The pads that came off didn't need to be swapped out just yet, but I've got a day of training with a pro driver next weekend and don't want to be screwing around with the car any more than necessary, so I swapped new one on. The rotors on the car have quite a bit of heat checking but no cracks. I expect they'll last a few more events, but have a spare set just in case. I run Hawk DTC70 pads up front, 60's in the rear on stock rotors. I've never had a set crumble off the backing plate, so I think managing the heat is the key to getting them (any) to last. I've never tried carbotechs, but might in the future... My 05 car races at 3400lbs btw...



This is the fluid I use... Available from Speedway motors for $18 for 17oz, rate for 600+ degrees.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Terry,

Do you have an opinion on PFC pads? I'm planning to run the PFC 01 compound on the front and 97 on the rear as soon as I have the coin.

PFC, Ferrodo and Pagid all make fine brake products. PFC has the most fitments. Carbotech is in the same "pricey but great" group, also.

I do like the 2015 GT500's 15" front brakes that Stevesspo talked about. Becoming very popular in S197 Pro racing, and not at all expensive. We're going to the GT500 rears before our next NASA event (13.77"), but if we still have heat issues we'll try the 15" fronts, next.

• http://www.rehagenracingproducts.co...Shelby-GT500-Boss-302-Mustang-GT-1028012A.htm -Brembo 14" 2-Piece Rotor Kit Shelby GT500, Boss 302, Mustang GT, $1895/pair

The 2-piece prices are definitely a head scratcher... but Stoptech has kept the costs of their big 2-piece stuff just below the insanity threshold.

 

[Speedfreak]

So it looks like the Motul RBF600 is the fluid I'll go with. Is emptying the brake reservoir of the old fluid, topping up with new fluid & then bleeding the calipers in sequence sufficient to flush the system? Do I need to be concerned about the fluid at the clutch?

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

So it looks like the Motul RBF600 is the fluid I'll go with. Is emptying the brake reservoir of the old fluid, topping up with new fluid & then bleeding the calipers in sequence sufficient to flush the system? Do I need to be concerned about the fluid at the clutch?

That's good. You will also notice old fluid from new, as you are bleeding it, as it will change color. Often the fluid goes from BLACK to the clear of fresh Motul...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Gonna be upgrading to . . . hawk ceramic pads.

Maybe I missed something, but are those pads still under even remote consideration?


Norm

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Maybe I missed something, but are those pads still under even remote consideration?

Norm

Hmm... not really for track use. Whenever I see "ceramic" I think street pads. (ninja edit!)

 

[Norm Peterson]

"see pads"?


Norm

 

[Whiskey11]

"see pads"?


Norm

I think he meant "Street" pads.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure I'd be that generous. More like Show/Cruise/always mild street driving, where it's probably OK to let the aesthetic qualities carry more weight than braking performance.


Norm

 

[Speedfreak]

I've been using the Hawk Ceramic pads for a while now with my stock calipers & rotors and think they're good. Am I missing something here? Are they not good enough with Brembo calipers?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

If you've been using the ceramics on track, you REALLY owe it to yourself to get a set of "real" race pads. I bet that you use your current braking points and come to a dead stop hundreds of feet before the corner entry point... Yes, it IS that much of a night and day difference!

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well . . . Hawk's own billing pitches the ceramics not particularly toward performance . . .

Recommended for import domestic automobiles, luxury SUV’s, sports trucks & vans.

Today’s alloy wheel designs on premium vehicles has contributed to customer demand for a low dust performance brake product. Specify Hawk Performance’s Performance Ceramic brake pads for your luxury car, SUV, or truck.

I don't see anything that sounds like open-tracking or even autocross use there.

You could go to Tire Rack's Hawk page (under the Brakes tab) and make your own conclusions from Tire Rack's red circle rating system. FWIW, the differences between HPS and HP+ seem about right. Personally, I wouldn't trade away a circle of performance in exchange for one each for dust and noise, but that could be just me.

Kind of anecdotal, but Hawk Ceramics have more or less become the default "go-to" pad choice among Camaro owners who can't stand the dust that their cars' OE pads produce. Hardly any of those folks ever mention performance or hard braking in the same post.


Norm

 

[Speedfreak]

So you reckon the HPS would be a better pad to get? I'm not planning to get a 'track only' set of brakes at the moment...

 

[Napoleon85]

Well . . . Hawk's own billing pitches the ceramics not particularly toward performance . . .


I don't see anything that sounds like open-tracking or even autocross use there.

You could go to Tire Rack's Hawk page (under the Brakes tab) and make your own conclusions from Tire Rack's red circle rating system. FWIW, the differences between HPS and HP+ seem about right. Personally, I wouldn't trade away a circle of performance in exchange for one each for dust and noise, but that could be just me.

Kind of anecdotal, but Hawk Ceramics have more or less become the default "go-to" pad choice among Camaro owners who can't stand the dust that their cars' OE pads produce. Hardly any of those folks ever mention performance or hard braking in the same post.


Norm

I'm surprised they aren't more popular with the "Daily Driver Brembo" crowd who complain about the same things. Hawk PC are definitely street-only pads not intended for spirited driving. The dust with HPS isn't that bad - no reason to choose PC over HPS in my opinion.

 

[zquez]

Hell even the hps pads dust less than the stock brembo pads and they bite better too. For track though, not only do they fade and not last, they also dust a crap ton. Which makes sense since I went through an entire set of new pads in a weekend. On the street they were great though. I'll be trying some gyrodisc magic pads after these autozone ceramics fall apart from me torturing them.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[fun4me]

So you reckon the HPS would be a better pad to get? I'm not planning to get a 'track only' set of brakes at the moment...

No HPS for the track. You get what you pay for.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Agreed. With as much weight as these cars are carrying, the amount of heat generated during a performance braking event is staggering, and can pretty easily outstrip the HPS/HP+ maximum operating temperature if you're even mildly aggressive on the track. DTC-60 all around is a pretty good package for a Brembo setup.

 

[JAJ]

Terry,
Thanks for the honest input. I was on the "lightweight 2 piece rotor train" for 2 years and have finally seen the light. I swapped to the 6 piston 15" GT500 front setup with Carbotech XP20, on the rear I have been running Baer Eradispeed 14" rotor (cross drilled, dumb I know) and Carbo XP-12 rear pads. Last week at VIR I totally cracked the 5 day used rear rings, up front the Ford OEM solids have no wear and no signs of heat check or microcracking. After getting my car fixed up (after having an a**hole rear end my trailer and wreck my truck, car and trailer), I am going back to stock OEM Ford rear rotors. Cost per unit is $116 for front and $25 for each rear rotor. The Continental Challenge guys do just fine with them so I think it's OK to give it a go.
Steve

Hi Steve - like you, I just switched to the GT500 15" Brembos, except that, well, I got mine with a 2014 GT500 attached.

Do you have a generic pad spec for them - an FMSI "D" number or something? I'm sure those fat Brembo OEM pads aren't unique to just this car.

Also like you, I'm a big fan of heavy brake disks - they handle the heat better, and that's what it's all about, in the end.

 

[2013kAB]

The extra pedal travel takes a little getting used to but that's about it.

i got lost, what was the source of the extra pedal travel? thanks.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

i got lost, what was the source of the extra pedal travel? thanks.

Cold race pads have a lower coefficient of friction, and thus require higher pedal effort to generate a given amount of stopping force compared to hot race pads... Higher pedal effort equates to more pressure on the brake pedal, and thus a longer pedal travel...