Cammed Mustang 5.0 Issues

[Hani]

A friend of mine has just installed Comp Stage 3 Cams (N/A) on his 2013 Mustang 5.0 that already had a full bolt on setup (CAI, LT’s, O/R X pipe, Boss Intake, etc).

After installing the cams, the car is experiencing issues during partial throttle, WOT or even after gear changes . The engine seems to hesitate to accelerate and looks like fuel is cutting; the video will illustrate what I mean clearly.

The car had aftermarket coils so we returned the factory ones along with new factory spark plugs but the problem is still there.

Before installing the cams, the car used to throw P0300 code (random misfire, I know there is a TSB for this) every couple of weeks and he used to clear it. However, after installing the cams, the same code is thrown almost every time the car is started.

Installation wise, the cams were installed in a workshop that had already installed cams on several 5.0’s.

Tune wise, we’ve done some datalogs but the tuner (same tuner from bolt on phase) said everything they look fine. Then, he’s sent us another tune with a revised partial throttle. We’ve done another set of datalogs but the problem is still there. The car had more power up top though.

The cams were installed without the Comp phaser limiters based on the advise of the tuner in order to lose low-midrange power. So, the tune accounts for no limiters.

The car is showing no other codes so we are lost on what to check. Any ideas?

Here is the video and couple of pics of the old spark plugs:

 

[nasty281]

If the tuner says the datalogs look good maybe there was some sort of install error

 

[BEAST]

Why post in black? I cant see very well and the black just blends into the background. Wish I could help, but I cant see your post.

Brought to you by tapatalk; 70k fuck yeah.

 

[SSPSTANGBANGER]

I was told by Lund and Comp Cams and Brenspeed the limiters are needed because of the fact the ECM cannot react fast enough to adjust the cams safely as close and as big as these are so limiters will stop it before it can get into a timing occur acne it doesn't need to be in safely.
I wonder if your issues are due to not using limiters


Sent from my iPhone 5S

 

[ford20]

This was A ED tuned? I know a bunch of guys on SVT P have said that you can run these cams without limiters and Shawn was able to tune without them. Maybe you do need limiters then.

 

[stang8psi]

and get the car a crank relearn if the code is continuing to pop up... that's the problem the car still thinks it's misfiring and therefore probably trying to go back to factory cam timing or 0.. fix the car first if it's getting the code than go through your tuning to verify the issue is not something else.. But I would almost bet it needs the re-learn..

 

[SC2011GT]

Does it do that at idle? Miss? Vibrate?

 

[Hani]

If the tuner says the datalogs look good maybe there was some sort of install error

We are checking on this. I though if installation wasn't correct, we would get some ECU codes but this didn't happen.

I was told by Lund and Comp Cams and Brenspeed the limiters are needed because of the fact the ECM cannot react fast enough to adjust the cams safely as close and as big as these are so limiters will stop it before it can get into a timing occur acne it doesn't need to be in safely.
I wonder if your issues are due to not using limiters

Our tuner has several cars without the limiters and all are running well with decent power.

This was A ED tuned? I know a bunch of guys on SVT P have said that you can run these cams without limiters and Shawn was able to tune without them. Maybe you do need limiters then.

Yes, it's remotely tuned by Shaun from AED. It was his advise to install the cams without the limiters in order not to lose low-midrange power. He has lots of cars tuned by him with the same setup but without issues at all.

and get the car a crank relearn if the code is continuing to pop up... that's the problem the car still thinks it's misfiring and therefore probably trying to go back to factory cam timing or 0.. fix the car first if it's getting the code than go through your tuning to verify the issue is not something else.. But I would almost bet it needs the re-learn..

I though the same especially that after installing the cams, this P0300 code is thrown daily while it used to come every couple of weeks before the cams install.

I think the crank relearn shall be carried out by Ford since the IDS system is required. Ford dealer has refused to carry out this due to the car being tuned/modified. Any other procdure for the crank sensor relearn?

Does it do that at idle? Miss? Vibrate?

The car idles fine. No symptoms of misfire or vibration or even stall.

 

[stang8psi]

Nope you need the ford ids! It also doesn't matter threat the car is tuned. When a crank sensor relearn is done it has no effect on the tune that is in the car, it will not change anything in the tune. If they are refusing its probably because they don't know what they are doing.. if I were you I would go to another dealer or find someone that has the ids tool. It laterally takes 5 min to do the re learn.

 

[Justinjor]

Needs a crank relearn. Time to find a new dealer

 

[Hani]

Nope you need the ford ids! It also doesn't matter threat the car is tuned. When a crank sensor relearn is done it has no effect on the tune that is in the car, it will not change anything in the tune. If they are refusing its probably because they don't know what they are doing.. if I were you I would go to another dealer or find someone that has the ids tool. It laterally takes 5 min to do the re learn.

I know that the relearn doesn't affect the tune. However, Ford dealers here are tough to deal with especially when cars are tuned or out of warranty. Maybe if we tell them we'll pay for it they will do it. It seems the first step now would be the crank sensor relearn and hope to see the issues gone. He is also installing a Mcleod clutch and flywheel so might need to do the crank sensor relearn at the same time. Thanks!

Needs a crank relearn. Time to find a new dealer

Only one Ford dealer unfortunately, but we'll do the relearn and report the outcome back.

 

[Grimace427]

For 2013 and some 2014 models there is an issue with the crank position sensor. There is a missing or damaged o-ring that mounts the sensor in the bellhousing that causes erroneous sensor readings, thus causing misfiring.

 

[Hani]

For 2013 and some 2014 models there is an issue with the crank position sensor. There is a missing or damaged o-ring that mounts the sensor in the bellhousing that causes erroneous sensor readings, thus causing misfiring.

I think this is TSB 13-6-15 and it covers 2011-2014 Mustangs 5.0. We are taking the car for the relearn and for this TSB as well. Thanks.

 

[saud alzaabi]

I am glad I found this thread as the cam installation was done at my shop, I reopened everything and triple checked with the cam timing and inspected everything that has to be inspected. I installed the limiters during that time and made sure there were no vacuum leaks.

To be honest I am suspecting the problem def to be from the crank sensor but I have to check two things before I go charging the customer for transmission removal .

Im gonna check the cam timing sensor and the injectors ( ALTHOUGH I HIGHLY DOUBT THE PROBLEM IS THEM ).

Everyone I know, Tuner or engine builder always suggested the limiters on cammed 5.0's and I do to because a piston might get a cute hole if a cam actuator ever failed to work..

 

[Blackblurr2007]

Sounds like shit! Why the cams vs price anyways?? Stock is plenty to make hp! What gains did you have actually?? Bolt Ons with auto you can make 410-412. What did you make?

 

[Hani]

I am glad I found this thread as the cam installation was done at my shop, I reopened everything and triple checked with the cam timing and inspected everything that has to be inspected. I installed the limiters during that time and made sure there were no vacuum leaks.

To be honest I am suspecting the problem def to be from the crank sensor but I have to check two things before I go charging the customer for transmission removal .

Im gonna check the cam timing sensor and the injectors ( ALTHOUGH I HIGHLY DOUBT THE PROBLEM IS THEM ).

Everyone I know, Tuner or engine builder always suggested the limiters on cammed 5.0's and I do to because a piston might get a cute hole if a cam actuator ever failed to work..

Thanks Saud. I hope it gets resolved soon!

Sounds like shit! Why the cams vs price anyways?? Stock is plenty to make hp! What gains did you have actually?? Bolt Ons with auto you can make 410-412. What did you make?

I know about the cost thing. The car owner wanted to get more power while staying N/A. We are expecting around 30 rwhp or so after the cams. His car was a monster with the bolt-on setup and it's a manual transmission.

 

[trevnut]

This ever get resolved?

 

[saud alzaabi]

This ever get resolved?

Yess sir all issues are gone, topped the power on street with o issues and the next step is to put her up on a dyno and fine tune the performance for peak.

 

[slvr08gt]

For 2013 and some 2014 models there is an issue with the crank position sensor. There is a missing or damaged o-ring that mounts the sensor in the bellhousing that causes erroneous sensor readings, thus causing misfiring.

I think this is TSB 13-6-15 and it covers 2011-2014 Mustangs 5.0. We are taking the car for the relearn and for this TSB as well. Thanks.

Little off topic.

Is it more common for the 13-14's to have rougher/choppier idle than the 11-12's because of this missing or damaged O-ring?? I ask because I have owned three 2013's and they all have idled much rougher than the 11' I owned a couple years ago.

-Nick

 

[trevnut]

Yess sir all issues are gone, topped the power on street with o issues and the next step is to put her up on a dyno and fine tune the performance for peak.

What was the issue? Any new idle and driving vids?