compression test results

[Wes06]

Ffffffffffffffff
That looks painful to the wallet

 

[Gh0stRep0rt]

Ffffffffffffffff
That looks painful to the wallet

yea, lucky me i got a spare head in the garage but on the phaser... I got no other choice but to buy a new one [emoji29] [emoji23]


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[702GT]

guess what guys and girls...

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I don't get it, how the hell did this happen? I've seen some epic failures in my hobby days, but based on the previous issues, this one takes the cake. You went from us telling you there's likely a potential timing issue, to a dealer telling you to replace leaky valves, to some kind of timing catastrophic failure?

What are we looking at in these photos? I see the timing chain on the cam gear through a hole in the timing cover, and then a piece of the phaser, and some chewed up cam journals. So what failed? Are we looking at cam caps that weren't torqued and the cam shaft was riding dirty? Did the phaser break apart and smash the timing cover? WTF hit it? It's virtually impossible for the cam shaft to move unless more than a few caps weren't torqued, and even then movement would be severely limited. I have seen cam shaft gears snap off (rather the bolts sheered) and do this kind of damage, but the chain looks like it's still riding the gear, so this doesn't look like that. What exactly are we looking at?

I'd say take the head to a head specialist machine shop and ask if there's a miracle worker in the house. If not, it's trashed. Buy a new 3v head and slap it back on. Prevent whatever happened here from happening again.

How do the cams look?

 

[RED09GT]

Why did you continue to run it after seeing the compression test results were that far off?

 

[Gh0stRep0rt]

Why did you continue to run it after seeing the compression test results were that far off?

i was getting my car vandalized by the neighbor so i decided to moved the car and park it at my parents drive way and thats when everything went wrong [emoji17], i was driving my wife car all this time after i got it back from the dealer...


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[rickf]

The biggest problem you have now is all that metal that circulated through the engine. That cam is history. So you need a head and at least one cam. You need to pull the other side and see how much damage was done by the metallic oil there. You are also going to need to check the rod and main bearings and oil pump. That looks to me like a lack of oil to the cam, it could have seized and that is what blew the phaser.

 

[Gh0stRep0rt]

I don't get it, how the hell did this happen? I've seen some epic failures in my hobby days, but based on the previous issues, this one takes the cake. You went from us telling you there's likely a potential timing issue, to a dealer telling you to replace leaky valves, to some kind of timing catastrophic failure?

What are we looking at in these photos? I see the timing chain on the cam gear through a hole in the timing cover, and then a piece of the phaser, and some chewed up cam journals. So what failed? Are we looking at cam caps that weren't torqued and the cam shaft was riding dirty? Did the phaser break apart and smash the timing cover? WTF hit it? It's virtually impossible for the cam shaft to move unless more than a few caps weren't torqued, and even then movement would be severely limited. I have seen cam shaft gears snap off (rather the bolts sheered) and do this kind of damage, but the chain looks like it's still riding the gear, so this doesn't look like that. What exactly are we looking at?

I'd say take the head to a head specialist machine shop and ask if there's a miracle worker in the house. If not, it's trashed. Buy a new 3v head and slap it back on. Prevent whatever happened here from happening again.

How do the cams look?

the cam only show scratches but no mayor problem, the last person who worked on the car was the dealer mechanic[emoji17]. when i turn on the car and felt the idle bugging out like it want to die out, right away it felts a big misfired so i shutdown the engine and opened the hood. saw the hole on the cover and oil everywhere, i was like “what just happened” i looked thru the hole where you put oil into the engine and saw the piece of the phaser broken. when i removed the broken phaser i decided to inspect the cam and thats how i found that head was damage and the part that hold it in place was the only piece losses [emoji29], the driver side has no sign of damage


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[Gh0stRep0rt]

The biggest problem you have now is all that metal that circulated through the engine. That cam is history. So you need a head and at least one cam. You need to pull the other side and see how much damage was done by the metallic oil there. You are also going to need to check the rod and main bearings and oil pump. That looks to me like a lack of oil to the cam, it could have seized and that is what blew the phaser.

i will inspect the oil this weekend and also will take the heads out


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[eighty6gt]

No part of this engine can be reused except for the reciprocating assembly after cleaning and machining.

I would swap in a complete 5.0 DOHC.

 

[rickf]

No part of this engine can be reused except for the reciprocating assembly after cleaning and machining.

I would swap in a complete 5.0 DOHC.

Why would you make a statement like that? You have no idea what is good or bad in there. I see absolutely nothing there that would tell me there is anything wrong with the block at all. The heads are probably gone along with the cams and the crank probably need to be polished but there should be nothing wrong with the block.

When you YOU would swap in a complete 5.0 DOHC it is apparent that you have more resources than a lot of the people on here.

 

[eighty6gt]

I am fairly poor - can't afford to throw money away after I give a 3V one chance to blow up. I plan on using a truck engine.

Yeah, I had meant to say reciprocating assembly and block - after all of it is thoroughly cleaned up.

When it comes down to it the junkyard 5.0 should be even money, if you play your cards right, and much more reliable.

 

[rickf]

You are forgetting all of the ancillary equipment that also has to be changed. it adds up to a good sum of money and junkyard engines are certainly no guarantee. I would not put one in without a complete rebuild.

 

[eighty6gt]

Just a few wires. There are some good swap threads here.

Rebuilt engines are about 20% as reliable as factory built.

These opinions have been formed and can be researched right here on this forum.

 

[702GT]

I'd clean it out and run it. Standard rebuild. Have the good head inspected, cam towers polished. If you've got a set of heads ready to go, even better. If just a spare head RH head, same as the LH have it inspected and cleaned. Worst case the rotating assembly got some abrasive damage. Machine shop can check tolerances and match new bearings. Would definitely go with a new oil pump and pickup tube.

I don't recall if the OP's engine is currently built or stock. If there was ever a time to build the motor, it would be now. There's at least 3 or 4 paths to take to remedy the situation, each will depend on how much you want to spend and what you want to do. My attitude towards these things is like this; if I'm going to pull a motor, whatever goes back in is going to be better than what I pulled out. If I'm not going to make it better, I'm going to spend the minimum possible putting it back in, if I put it back in at all. Depending on what comes out of the oil pan (I would drop the pan and pull the timing cover, make sure any and all bits/pieces are found/removed) would affect my decision of either running what I've got with minimal repair, or doing it the right way and having everything cleaned/machined/rebuilt to spec.

I'm a "fuck it" kind of mechanic, I'll run what I've got with full know of the (potential) consequences. In the circumstances for which this failure occurred, I don't think I'd give it a second thought to put the motor back together with minimal repairs and flush the motor with a few oil changes. (Mind the pickup tube and oil pump.) As Rick pointed out, not everyone sits so pretty with their finances that they can just dump cash when their toy breaks. I personally enjoy punishing the 4.6 engines (all configurations, 2v/3v/4v) because they can take it. I could spin the stories of 4.6's in worse conditions than this one that have put heroic punishment to its pushrod nemesis'. Had a friend years ago had his '00 GT sitting with a spun bearing waiting on a rebuild fire his up for one last run to shut somebody's flapping gums. I can tell you a 4.6 2v with a spun rod bearing trumps a fully functional LS1... at least until the engine overheats lol. I think it's more embarrassing to lose to a broken 2v than it is to be towed home after smashing on a LS.

I'm not saying it's "right" but it's an option. Do the best with what you've got, and know you'll need a rebuild or a built motor in the near future.

 

[slackinoff]

No part of this engine can be reused except for the reciprocating assembly after cleaning and machining.

Exactly!

Here is what happened to me......and imho the best way to get the car back on the road cheap and fast......Both my cams scored my towers/cam journals terribly and filled the oil filter before I knew what was even happening. I just picked up a low mileage 2010 3v from LKQ for $1,506 shipped free to my buddies forklift shop. If you can get it to a commercial business that has a lift or that has a forklift, they waive the freight.
Give LKQ a call, don't go on ebay. LKQ will tell you how long the engine was in the vehical after they got it, when it was pulled, put up in their warehouse and how long it has been there. I know this sounds like a damn LKQ advert but damn I was impressed.

You are forgetting all of the ancillary equipment that also has to be changed. it adds up to a good sum of money and junkyard engines are certainly no guarantee. I would not put one in without a complete rebuild.

Spot on, these truck 5.0 swaps look cheap and easy but they not, do the math for all the extras. It is not nearly as cheap as replacing a good running 3v, getting back on the road and having fun!

 

[eighty6gt]

Just 60% more power...

 

[Juice]

From a cost perspective, replacing the engine with the same, good used engine will ALWAYS be cheaper than building/rebuilding one. (and quicker to get up and running) Most used engines from reputable sellers come with some type of warranty (30 days~60 days) seems to be the norm. So you have time to install and run it/test it. You can pull the spark plugs immediately after the engine is delivered and get a very good idea of the condition of the engine, quick and simple.

Rebuilding is time consuming and more expensive, but in theory, you end up with a brand new engine IF IT IS BUILT PROPERLY. A small error building can have catastrophic consequences. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[slackinoff]

From a cost perspective, replacing the engine with the same, good used engine will ALWAYS be cheaper than building/rebuilding one. (and quicker to get up and running) Most used engines from reputable sellers come with some type of warranty (30 days~60 days) seems to be the norm. Rebuilding is time consuming and more expensive, but in theory, you end up with a brand new engine IF IT IS BUILT PROPERLY. A small error building can have catastrophic consequences. Just something to keep in mind.

I agree get the car on the road with some cams or whatever a little bost of power and have fun while you get your big HP engine built. Having a running car is big motivation.