snake40
Junior Member
Thanks for the pictures
cortex watts link
- Thread starter jayh007
- Start date
neema
forum member
Anyone see the new Griggs unit?
Mr. Q
forum member
whoa, that's hot
jayh007
forum member
Looks like you can install the propeller unit without removing the Diff cover. I would like to see a photo of the complete unit
Whiskey11
SCCA Autoscrosser #23 STU
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This. That's a pretty nifty trick but I wonder if the cost is going to go down or up now!
Well on the Griggs website right now you must order the "girdle mount" unit that includes all arms and whatnot, and then buy the spider mount separately. The total is about $1250. I bet you can get the complete unit with the spider mount instead of the girdle mount for much less if you call them.
Dubstep Shep
WUB WUB VROOM VROOM
I would think so. Griggs website has been under construction for awhile now lol. I called for my order.
barbaro
forum member
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That Griggs Watts Link is an elegant design.
claudermilk
Senior Member
Gee, I wonder what prompted this design? Neat idea & nice to have another option. Yet another thing to think about for my wishlist.
Neat idea & nice to have another option. Yet another thing to think about for my wishlist.
Dubstep Shep
WUB WUB VROOM VROOM
If you check out their watts link catalogue, you can see the old design (what I have) vs the new one. The new one is impressive, even more so than the model I have.
What's even more impressive to me is that they did the entire thing in SolidWorks, and ran Finite Element Analysis on it. You know that design will hold up to anything short of a wreck that you could throw at it.
Dubstep Shep
WUB WUB VROOM VROOM
Yea, I've seen that.... in the movie ALIENS...
Hahahahahahaa I literally just laughed out loud. Now I'm getting strange looks
sheizasosay
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Yea, I've seen that.... in the movie ALIENS...
That's very elegant.
sheizasosay
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You owe me a new keyboard.
All I have available is a commodore 64 and an Amiga 500 from back in 1528 when I played them.
claudermilk
Senior Member
ROFL! Well, if it grips the axle as well as that beastie held on, we're in good shape.
Gray Ghost GT
Road Racing Fanatic!
I suppose for some they would consider the design.... elegant.
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I finally got the car to TWS with TrackGuys this past weekend and here’s a write up of the experience. I’ll start with a Cliff Note version , and follow that with more details for those who are still interested.
The test mule:
2011 GT/Brembo, 275/35/18 R888, Koni Sport (3/4 firm front/rear), Steeda Sport spring (200F/175R), Strano front sway bar, OEM rear sway bar (24mm), FRPP rear lower control arms, FRPP reloc brackets (top holes), and Cortex watts link (2nd hole from bottom). Previous trips to TWS had the same setup except for a panhard bar and Strano adjustable rear sway bar.
The good:
+ Transition from oval to T1 at TWS was MUCH less of a puckering experience. Minimal steering correction needed coming off the banking into T1.
+ Rough patch of track between T3/T4, and T9/T10 does not affect directional stability at all. Braking much later into T4 and T10.
+ Rear stay flat on fast corner exit (T2, T4, T6, T7). Much more grip than before and higher corner exit speed.
+ Rear stay flat in the carousel (T10), which is a slow/tight turn with a very late apex. Rear stay composed, but front is understeering. Previously, the car oversteers in this corner. Increased front roll stiffness to dial out some understeer. Probably needs more front spring rate or more negative camber to properly dial in the car for this corner. Oh yeah, running just a measly 1.5 degree negative camber. Will be setting the car to at least 2 degree negative for the next HPDE event...
The bad:
- Rear tires break loose out of slow corners (T10, T11) with very little throttle input and the car pretty much pointing straight ahead. I suspect this is tires related because there are zero looseness coming out of fast corners. Note that rear tires is at least 1 - 2 psi hotter than normal.
The NVH:
- Faint buzzing felt through the belt buckle under acceleration. Otherwise, no increase in NVH on the track and on the road.
Observations:
- The improvements over rough portion of the track is probably more of a confidence booster for the loose nut behind the steering wheel. While it is easier for me to coming off the oval at a higher speed, or brake later into T4, I have taken these turns at the same speed with the panhard bar before. Although it was done with much less white knuckles this time with the watts link, and I was much more consistent than before. This one probably falls into the same category as “does a race seat/harness makes a car go faster?” Seasoned drivers will likely benefit less from this than an amateur like myself.
- Corner exit speed on fast corners are much higher and much more controlled than before. I have taken T2 and T4 at speed that makes the rear tires steps out in the past, but there was no signs of slippage at these corners and I’m coming out of these turns faster than before. T7 exit speed is also higher than before, and much more controlled. It will take me a lot more lap times to find the new exit speed limits. Driver confidence does not improves rear traction, so I’m giving this to the watts link.
Now for the long-winded version...
The drive to/from TWS was with the car fully loaded with 4 tires, floor jack, tools, supply, etc. with the rear riding on trimmed bump stops. Bumps/dips on the road requires little to no steering correction, and the drive was much more relaxing than the last time I did this with the same payload. Except for faint buzzing that can be felt through the belt buckle on acceleration, the watts link did not add any other NVH.
Just remember that I did change the reloc brackets and control arms (from whiteline to FRPP) since last time I was at TWS, but I don’t think they changes the handling very much.
Not trusting my own butt dyno calibration, I went out with group 2 so that a friend (who is an instructor with TrackGuys) could ride shotgun and compare notes from all four sessions. First session was 4 no-helmet parade laps, with the instructor driving initially. My friend immediately noticed (and liked) the lowered rear RC.
Second session, I went out with a brain fade and aired up the R888 to 34F/32R cold. After a couple of laps to remember the track, I noticed the front was pushing in T10. Exiting slow corners like T10 and T11 with light throttle input made the rear tires comes loose. I should add that coming out of faster corners (T1, T2, T4, T6, T7) did not result in any looseness in the rear. So I wasn’t drifting through every corners going sideway. Rough patches of track (between T3/T4, and T9/T10) was non-issue and I find myself carrying much more speed into T4 and T10.
Hot tire pressure was 39F/39R! While the 39 psi front is completely due to my mistake of starting with 34 psi, I did not expect the rear tires to heat up that much. Track temperature was in the 70’s and the oversteer at T10/T11 was caught and corrected quickly so the sliding clearly wasn’t enough to heat up the rear tires that much. My guess is that the additional traction in the rear throughout the whole track caused this temperature jump.
Third session, I moved the front sway bar to the stiffest setting, and lowering cold pressure to 32F/30R (pretty sure that’s what worked best last time…). I suspect a better change would be a higher rate front spring, but I didn’t have extra springs in the trunk… This helped the understeer in T10 a lot and I was able to steer the car again. After a couple of laps, the rear was still slipping (but less than the previous session) coming out of T10 and T11. Again, no problem with anywhere else on the track. I also noted that I’m coming off the oval into T1 at least 10 MPH faster than I’ve gone before. Experienced drivers probably won’t notice the transition from banking to flat as much, but I usually coast after crossing the start/finish line to bleed off some speed before turn off the oval. After a few laps to feel what the car was doing, it was easy to come off the oval into T1 and focus on T2 rather than just trying to loosen up the death grips on the steering wheel.
I’m also coming out of T2, T4 and T6 much faster than any of my previous trips to TWS and using up the whole track on track-out. My driving style have never been the no-fear-late-braking style. But I keep finding myself braking much later than almost every car that I catches along the track, especially after going over the rough portion of the track between T3/T4. Clearly, the rough track was bothering other drivers and it was much easier to carry speed over the bumps and late brake. Hot tire pressure is now 36F/35R. Still rather high for R888s and the rear still came up higher than usual.
Last session, cold tire pressure at 30F/27R. I did not notice any slipping at T10/T11, but my friend commented that there is still a hint of it. But the lower rear tire pressure clearly helped. Hot tire pressure is now at a more normal 34/32. I went out on the track with only 2 cars in front of me. One point by later, I had the track all to myself (the lead car was long gone…) and the car felt GREAT: Balanced, predictable, goes where I pointed the steering wheel and the rear of the car doesn’t feels like it has a mind of its own. The car clearly had a higher corner exit speed than before, but it’s going to take more than a few laps to safely find that limit.
In conclusion, I’m very happy with the watts link and could not imagine going back to a panhard bar.
The test mule:
2011 GT/Brembo, 275/35/18 R888, Koni Sport (3/4 firm front/rear), Steeda Sport spring (200F/175R), Strano front sway bar, OEM rear sway bar (24mm), FRPP rear lower control arms, FRPP reloc brackets (top holes), and Cortex watts link (2nd hole from bottom). Previous trips to TWS had the same setup except for a panhard bar and Strano adjustable rear sway bar.
The good:
+ Transition from oval to T1 at TWS was MUCH less of a puckering experience. Minimal steering correction needed coming off the banking into T1.
+ Rough patch of track between T3/T4, and T9/T10 does not affect directional stability at all. Braking much later into T4 and T10.
+ Rear stay flat on fast corner exit (T2, T4, T6, T7). Much more grip than before and higher corner exit speed.
+ Rear stay flat in the carousel (T10), which is a slow/tight turn with a very late apex. Rear stay composed, but front is understeering. Previously, the car oversteers in this corner. Increased front roll stiffness to dial out some understeer. Probably needs more front spring rate or more negative camber to properly dial in the car for this corner. Oh yeah, running just a measly 1.5 degree negative camber. Will be setting the car to at least 2 degree negative for the next HPDE event...
The bad:
- Rear tires break loose out of slow corners (T10, T11) with very little throttle input and the car pretty much pointing straight ahead. I suspect this is tires related because there are zero looseness coming out of fast corners. Note that rear tires is at least 1 - 2 psi hotter than normal.
The NVH:
- Faint buzzing felt through the belt buckle under acceleration. Otherwise, no increase in NVH on the track and on the road.
Observations:
- The improvements over rough portion of the track is probably more of a confidence booster for the loose nut behind the steering wheel. While it is easier for me to coming off the oval at a higher speed, or brake later into T4, I have taken these turns at the same speed with the panhard bar before. Although it was done with much less white knuckles this time with the watts link, and I was much more consistent than before. This one probably falls into the same category as “does a race seat/harness makes a car go faster?” Seasoned drivers will likely benefit less from this than an amateur like myself.
- Corner exit speed on fast corners are much higher and much more controlled than before. I have taken T2 and T4 at speed that makes the rear tires steps out in the past, but there was no signs of slippage at these corners and I’m coming out of these turns faster than before. T7 exit speed is also higher than before, and much more controlled. It will take me a lot more lap times to find the new exit speed limits. Driver confidence does not improves rear traction, so I’m giving this to the watts link.
Now for the long-winded version...
The drive to/from TWS was with the car fully loaded with 4 tires, floor jack, tools, supply, etc. with the rear riding on trimmed bump stops. Bumps/dips on the road requires little to no steering correction, and the drive was much more relaxing than the last time I did this with the same payload. Except for faint buzzing that can be felt through the belt buckle on acceleration, the watts link did not add any other NVH.
Just remember that I did change the reloc brackets and control arms (from whiteline to FRPP) since last time I was at TWS, but I don’t think they changes the handling very much.
Not trusting my own butt dyno calibration, I went out with group 2 so that a friend (who is an instructor with TrackGuys) could ride shotgun and compare notes from all four sessions. First session was 4 no-helmet parade laps, with the instructor driving initially. My friend immediately noticed (and liked) the lowered rear RC.
Second session, I went out with a brain fade and aired up the R888 to 34F/32R cold. After a couple of laps to remember the track, I noticed the front was pushing in T10. Exiting slow corners like T10 and T11 with light throttle input made the rear tires comes loose. I should add that coming out of faster corners (T1, T2, T4, T6, T7) did not result in any looseness in the rear. So I wasn’t drifting through every corners going sideway. Rough patches of track (between T3/T4, and T9/T10) was non-issue and I find myself carrying much more speed into T4 and T10.
Hot tire pressure was 39F/39R! While the 39 psi front is completely due to my mistake of starting with 34 psi, I did not expect the rear tires to heat up that much. Track temperature was in the 70’s and the oversteer at T10/T11 was caught and corrected quickly so the sliding clearly wasn’t enough to heat up the rear tires that much. My guess is that the additional traction in the rear throughout the whole track caused this temperature jump.
Third session, I moved the front sway bar to the stiffest setting, and lowering cold pressure to 32F/30R (pretty sure that’s what worked best last time…). I suspect a better change would be a higher rate front spring, but I didn’t have extra springs in the trunk…
This helped the understeer in T10 a lot and I was able to steer the car again. After a couple of laps, the rear was still slipping (but less than the previous session) coming out of T10 and T11. Again, no problem with anywhere else on the track. I also noted that I’m coming off the oval into T1 at least 10 MPH faster than I’ve gone before. Experienced drivers probably won’t notice the transition from banking to flat as much, but I usually coast after crossing the start/finish line to bleed off some speed before turn off the oval. After a few laps to feel what the car was doing, it was easy to come off the oval into T1 and focus on T2 rather than just trying to loosen up the death grips on the steering wheel. I’m also coming out of T2, T4 and T6 much faster than any of my previous trips to TWS and using up the whole track on track-out. My driving style have never been the no-fear-late-braking style. But I keep finding myself braking much later than almost every car that I catches along the track, especially after going over the rough portion of the track between T3/T4. Clearly, the rough track was bothering other drivers and it was much easier to carry speed over the bumps and late brake. Hot tire pressure is now 36F/35R. Still rather high for R888s and the rear still came up higher than usual.
Last session, cold tire pressure at 30F/27R. I did not notice any slipping at T10/T11, but my friend commented that there is still a hint of it. But the lower rear tire pressure clearly helped. Hot tire pressure is now at a more normal 34/32. I went out on the track with only 2 cars in front of me. One point by later, I had the track all to myself (the lead car was long gone…) and the car felt GREAT: Balanced, predictable, goes where I pointed the steering wheel and the rear of the car doesn’t feels like it has a mind of its own. The car clearly had a higher corner exit speed than before, but it’s going to take more than a few laps to safely find that limit.
In conclusion, I’m very happy with the watts link and could not imagine going back to a panhard bar.
Last edited:
neema
forum member
I've heard similar comments about watts links helping with confidence over choppy/rough surfaces. Do you use the polyurethane bushings or rod ends?
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