cortex watts link

[jayh007]

Welding not my strong points. That may steer me towards the Whiteline. Like to do the install myself. Will the Cortex also require welding?

 

[Antti]

Complete Cortex watts is only 19.9 lbs. If weight does matter..

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Welding not my strong points. That may steer me towards the Whiteline. Like to do the install myself. Will the Cortex also requires welding?

It really wasn't bad. I'm fortunate enough to have a friend that welds, but a shop wouldn't charge a while lot for the one bracket on the watts link.

 

[jayh007]

Jesse appreciate the feed back on the Whiteline. Everyone is entitled to their opinion good or bad. We just have to reviews the facts and come up with our own conclusion.

 

[NoTicket]

Just to clarify: Maybe I didn't say exactly what I would have liked to. Given the choice, I would choose the Cortex Watts. I believe that the Whiteline Watts is capable of performing very well. I enjoy it immensely out on the track. If it had not committed ritual suicide on a 15-20mph turn on the commute home, I would be more confident in recommending it to others.

It is possible for one good thing to be better than another good thing. I know this is the internet, but recommending the Cortex over the Whiteline Watts Link does not indicate that the Whiteline Watts link is a pile of trash. It merely indicates that in my opinion, it is the better of the two units.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I find it strange how “it hasn’t broken yet, so it must be good” is accepted as solid logic.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I find it strange how “it hasn’t broken yet, so it must be good” is accepted as solid logic.

Not the most logical thing I've ever heard hehehe.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I dunno, I still like my Panhard bar... (ducks to avoid thrown beers)

After a crash hard enough to BEND the rear axle housing, while both rod-ends were destroyed, the PHB was still attached at both ends to the factory double-shear bracketry and hardware... I doubt that type of force applied to any single-shear Watts propeller mount would have as survivable an outcome. Not enough gain for the weight and complexity cost outside of (possibly) parking-lot cone-hunting.

 

[Powered by Ford]

I find it strange how “it hasn’t broken yet, so it must be good” is accepted as solid logic.

Damn you summed up my post in a lot less words.

BTW guys I'm running the Cortex setup. The welding is nothing to worry about and there is zero noise. I am even running the steeda spherical bearing for my differential bushing.

 

[NoTicket]

I dunno, I still like my Panhard bar... (ducks to avoid thrown beers)

After a crash hard enough to BEND the rear axle housing, while both rod-ends were destroyed, the PHB was still attached at both ends to the factory double-shear bracketry and hardware... I doubt that type of force applied to any single-shear Watts propeller mount would have as survivable an outcome. Not enough gain for the weight and complexity cost outside of (possibly) parking-lot cone-hunting.

And in response to that... a panhard bar that's snapped in half!

 

[Roadracer350]

Just to clarify: Maybe I didn't say exactly what I would have liked to. Given the choice, I would choose the Cortex Watts. I believe that the Whiteline Watts is capable of performing very well. I enjoy it immensely out on the track. If it had not committed ritual suicide on a 15-20mph turn on the commute home, I would be more confident in recommending it to others.

It is possible for one good thing to be better than another good thing. I know this is the internet, but recommending the Cortex over the Whiteline Watts Link does not indicate that the Whiteline Watts link is a pile of trash. It merely indicates that in my opinion, it is the better of the two units.

Oh I agree my statement about Whiteline is just my opinion because that's what I purchased.

 

[Roadracer350]

Ok can you prove this statement? Have you used either Cortex or Griggs units?

This kind of posting drives me away from posting. You get these guys that have only used one component and go around saying it's the best thing ever and they haven't used other setups.

It's like all the supercharger threads of which is the best? Of course people are gonna say theirs is. Same applies here.

Whiteline does not use a double shear setup which has disadvantages. Is it a bad product? No.

Just some constructive criticism...

Constructive criticism I don't mind I actually like it. You learn from it. Gmitch bashing is another story.... No I do not have any experience with cortex but a buddy of mine is running the Griggs set up. It's loud compared to mine. It's hard to compare the 2 cars because his is a dedicated track car and mine is still on the street for now. Of I had the money to buy all 3 and test them to see which was the best I would but I don't. Yes Whiteline is in single sheer and it would be better if it was in double sheer but it works pretty damn good as is. Look at the Vorshlag guys, they have proven it. Again this is all my opinion

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Is your buddy running the street or track kit from Griggs? I have the street kit and it's barely louder than the factory parts.

 

[NoTicket]

You know, one thing that is barely, if ever brought up is that the Whiteline unit does not have any BOLTS in single shear. The chassis side bolts of the arms are in double sheer, and the propeller bolts are not in sheer at all.

The construction of the propeller is such that the bolts are never under any sheering forces. They are only used to hold retaining washers to keep the arms and propeller in place under forward and backward movement. The bolts thread in to welded in pivot points. Even the center pivot rotates around a welded in threaded sleeve on the mounting bracket.

In the case of the failure on my Whiteline unit, the weld was bad (it was porous). When the weld is good it is plenty strong. It really is not as straight forward as saying the Whiteline is in single shear, and the Cortex/Griggs/Fays2 are in double sheer, since the other units have the actual bolts under sheer force, and the Whiteline has welded tubes undergoing those forces.

 

[Roadracer350]

Is your buddy running the street or track kit from Griggs? I have the street kit and it's barely louder than the factory parts.

I am assuming (and we all know what that means) that it's the race kit. It has rod ends on both sides of the arms.

 

[jayh007]

So far no one has posted that actually has a cortex unit. The weak link I see in the griggs, cortex and WL unit is the Diff cover. Hows it fabricated?

 

[Roadracer350]

I know the Whiteline is cast and machined.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

And in response to that... a panhard bar that's snapped in half!

I am thinking now that it may have been clipped by a rock or something at some point before I bought it and cracked the bar and then due to my "spirited driving" exacerbated the crack to the point of failure.

After noting rust along one edge of the crack...

My son's 2006 mustang panhard rod broke on his way home last night.

...and it looks like something hit the bar and bent it and that just made it weaken...

I won't quote the third failure, but here is what they all have in common:

All three were bent prior to failure. If the bar isn't bent, it sees (essentially) only compression and tension loads, but as soon as you throw a bend into it, yes, it will fail. ANY suspension part will fail, if you supply the right pre-existing condition. Control arm, knuckle, hub, whatever... Also, FWIW, when I did my repairs, I swapped in two new Heim joints and re-used the existing aluminum tube. So, right back at'cha!!!

Also, just to be clear, the bulk of the connections on the Whiteline Watts are indeed in single-shear. The prop bolt is, certainly, and so are the link arms at the football. I will concede with no problem that the bolts themselves are NOT in single shear, however the welded-on bosses the bolts thread into ARE in single-shear. It wouldn't be overly difficult to make the entire setup double-shear, however that would add to the complexity of the design, particularly from a bushing/bearing standpoint, and increase the parts costs by a reasonable degree.

In simple terms, a fastener actually connects two parts, in this case a linkage arm to a bracket. If the bracket is shaped like a "U" and the bushing on the linkage arm is in the jaws of the U, it's in double-shear, and all the forces pass directly to the bracket itself. If the bracket is shaped like an "I", and the bushing is on the side of the upright, then it is in single-shear, and the forces exert a certain amount of prying load to the bolt before eventually being passed through the bracket. The longer the lever-arm, the more torque is applied at the first point of contact between the bolt and the bracket. The double-shear arrangement essentially cuts the lever-arm length in half, and splits the load through each half of the bracket. MUCH lower applied force at any given point, but the same net applied force.

Think of it this way: Hold a 12" long section of broomstick or dowel rod in your right hand, pointing towards your left, with your arm straight forward and elbow locked. Now, have somebody push or pull on the middle of that stick directly towards or away from you. The dowel twisting in your fist is the applied torque in a single-shear arrangement. Now, grab the other end of the stick with your LEFT hand and repeat the test. VERY different result! That's a double-shear arrangement. The stick in this case could be a bolt passing through a control arm bushing, OR a threaded boss that the bushing slips over and is then retained by a bolt and washer. The prying forces are still there in a single-shear arrangement. In essence, you're relying on the strength of the weld (strength of your grip in the analogy) to translate the prying force into linear force parallel to the load.

If somebody with an ME would like to expound, I think we could ALL use the info, myself included.

 

[jmauld]

I Not enough gain for the weight and complexity cost outside of (possibly) parking-lot cone-hunting.

I'm kind of with you. I'd have to drive a car with a watts link to know for certain, but the phb does a pretty darn good job. I know it's not perfect, but it's light weight and very simple.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

If somebody with an ME would like to expound, I think we could ALL use the info, myself included.

Well I don't have my degree for another semester, but if I get the chance in the next few days I'll crack open my Design of Mechanical components book and do a quick proof on it.

You seemed to pretty much nail the theory. All a proof is going to do is show how the shear forces balance differently with single and double shear.