Coyote Before/After LT Header Results - NO TUNE?

[Gremlin85]

In all my research I've done since I bought my 2013 Mustang GT, I noticed a lot of talk about before and after Long Tube Header only dyno results. From what I can tell, and correct me if i'm wrong, but there are no real before and after numbers WITHOUT a tune.


I am posting about this to gauge interest in seeing actual before and after numbers with a long tube header only Coyote Mustang. I am going to schedule my stock car with RTR Axel-backs only for a dyno reading so I can have a starting point on all the engine mods I have coming. I plan to do this for Wednesday March 12, 2014 - as long as the shop has it available. I will then install the LT's and do another dyno run to see the gains of them with nothing else on the car except my RTR axel-backs. No tune.

The only issue I have is that it will not be completed on the same day. There is going to be a bit of time between the stock readings and when I get the headers installed. How much time, I do not know... maybe a few weeks. I will hope that I can get it done on days that are similar and hopefully the corrected numbers would suffice?

Will I be wasting time (and money) doing this or are people really curious on actual before and after from bone stock to just long tube headers? To specify, I will be going with a catless X-pipe as well. When I am done with this before and after, I will then be finishing my mods and tuning it to see where the numbers go from stock. Then it's track time for REAL results

Just tossing this out there as I was hoping to at least contribute a little something to the community even as minor as this.

 

[Stolen 98]

I'd call Mike @ powerhouse and discuss it with him. Stainless Works used his 2011 as test mule for thier first LT kit.

He has a lot of unbiased info on it.

powerhouse411.com

 

[BadHabit2Break]

If your going to run a catless X-pipe, what are you going to do about the rear 02's? Are you going to try and run non-foulers, otherwise your going to throw codes for them.

 

[Gremlin85]

If your going to run a catless X-pipe, what are you going to do about the rear 02's? Are you going to try and run non-foulers, otherwise your going to throw codes for them.

I'll be leaving it be until I tune it (which will be immediately after the dyno runs). They're just catalyst efficency codes which do not effect how the car should perform.

 

[Gremlin85]

I'd call Mike @ powerhouse and discuss it with him. Stainless Works used his 2011 as test mule for thier first LT kit.

He has a lot of unbiased info on it.

powerhouse411.com

Funny, I went with SW. I'll have to see what he has to say and if they did a back-to-back without a tune.

 

[ebrow21]

Gained over 1mph 1/4, 2+mph 1/8th. Stainless power longtubes. NO tune change. Not even a re-upload. 12 Mustang with a 2.3 whipple.

So, best before 10.11@ 136.04 , 1.45 60' (-600 DA)

Best after 10.05 @ 137.4 , 1.44 60 (-200 DA)

Pretty sure I could have run a 9.99 that night, added a degree of timing on the handheld, it liked it too much and hit the rev-limiter/broke the blower belt. Still went a 10.30 @ 117 lol. Should have just waited for the weather to improve that night instead of messing with the tune.

Edit. O/R-X on a stock tune gave 0 hp on the dyno, when I did it vs a procal with the same mods. Not sure what improvement longtubes would show, or why one would choose that route.

 

[GrabberBlue5.0]

I'm interested in the results, but I think most people with give you a lot of shit for posting results from different days. I don't believe you will see any results without tuning the car. I would get it tuned, change the headers, then get it tuned again and check numbers.

 

[Gremlin85]

I'm interested in the results, but I think most people with give you a lot of shit for posting results from different days. I don't believe you will see any results without tuning the car. I would get it tuned, change the headers, then get it tuned again and check numbers.

That's the biggest issue. Since I'm not doing back-to-back on the same day, is the whole thing moot? Would the SAE Corrected Numbers work for most or is all going to be B.S.?

Are people (like myself) just curious on what we're spending so much money on that they won't mind different days (as long as the weather is somewhat comparable)?

This, in my findings, will be the only true comparison between a stock Coyote Mustang and a stock Coyote Mustang with Long Tube Headers. The car will be tuned but only after the results. I'm positive that there will be some gains going from stock with cats to LT's and catless. How much on a stock car without tuning is the debate.

Maybe this will be worth doing?

 

[FIVE-OH]

So, best before 10.11@ 136.04 , 1.45 60' (-600 DA)

Best after 10.05 @ 137.4 , 1.44 60 (-200 DA)



Edit. O/R-X on a stock tune gave 0 hp on the dyno, when I did it vs a procal with the same mods. Not sure what improvement longtubes would show, or why one would choose that route.

In all honesty those are pretty tiny gains from stock headers to long tube headers if I am reading it right. I would be pissed after spending all that money and time and getting gains so small that just different DA could account for. I mean I know two people who gained .2 and .3 and 1-2 mph from just going to a off road H pipe with the stock manifolds still on the cars...

 

[ebrow21]

In all honesty those are pretty tiny gains from stock manifolds to long tube headers if I am reading it right. I would be pissed after spending all that money and time and getting gains so small that just different DA could account for. I mean I know two people who gained .2 and .3 and 1-2 mph from just going to a off road H pipe with the stock manifolds still on the cars...

Different DA didn't account for it, the car ran better in worse weather. In my particular case, that was a gain on top of a o/r -x. MPH Gains aren't linear for a car running 12's or 11's to a car running low 10's.


Quick calculator.
http://www.wallaceracing.com/hp-mph-increase.php

My car weighs 3860 at race weight, so its over 20whp OVER the o/r x. NO tune changes, no timing changes. I'm ok with that.

 

[bakerjd]

I'm interested to see the results.

Spelling errors brought to you by Autocorrect

 

[07TGGT]

You won't see gains like cast manifold to LTs like on previous Mustang.

Also, 5.0 don't have manifolds. We have short tube headers from the factory. That's why gains aren't "very impressive." Y'all need to keep that in mind.

 

[Gremlin85]

You won't see gains like cast manifold to LTs like on previous Mustang.

Also, 5.0 don't have manifolds. We have short tube headers from the factory. That's why gains aren't "very impressive." Y'all need to keep that in mind.

Duly noted.


I let this sit overnight and looks like it's not something people really comment much on or really care about. However, I feel it's something I'm still going to do just for shit's and gig's. If anything informative comes of it, great. If not, well, at least we'll (I'll) know.

So I'm going to try and schedule my dyno appointment for next Wednesday and see where we start. I will then try and install my headers as soon as possible after that. I'm installing them on my own, in my driveway with jackstands. This is why it won't be a same day test. But then again, who gets a base dyno and then immediately does all his/her mods that same day and then re-dyno? It's usually weeks, months even years later and they justify "hey, I started out at xxx whp and now i'm xxx/xxxx whp!". Same thing here.

I'll update this as soon as I get stock numbers.

 

[Gremlin85]

I found this: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=821575&postcount=19

Let's see if it's true. I'm all set to dyno stock on wed at 10am and then headers no tune next.

 

[Gremlin85]

Not like it's new information on these vehicles, but I went to get my stock readings yesterday. I was fine with the HP but the TQ seemed low... most likely because it was done in 4th since it was stock with stock speed limiter in place?

Anyway, the details are.

• Dyno'd at Enhanced Street Performance (ESP) in Sterling MA.
• It is an AWD Mustang Dyno
• The weather was overcast and about 55 degrees (I think)
• Car has RTR Axel Backs and suspension mods - Everything else is bone stock
• Car had 6100 miles on it at the time of the runs.
• It was 3 back to back pulls with no rest.
• Best WHP was 368
• Best WTQ was 323
• AFR was pretty consistant and held 11.8-11.9 on average at WOT.

The car ran extemely consistant (as it should since it's pretty much bone stock motor wise). The operator running the dyno stated that the car just kept wanting to be revved higher as it kept making power even to it's stock redline. He also stated the last few 5.0 Mustangs he tested were in the 350WHP range on this particular dyno a few weeks ago. I was skeptical that they were 2010-2012 models with the 412 rated hp instead of the 420. Or it could be that the axel backs helped? I don't know.

Here are the dyno results, pics and videos....

I'm having troubel uploading the video.... i should have that soon I hope.


I'm going to install the headers as soon as possible and then go back without a tune to see the differences. I'm 99.9% sure these ECM's are not tq based in a way that they have a learn-down feature like a lot of GM cars do (my 2009 Cobalt SS Turb was one that would keep stock power ratings with any mod until a tune). Hopefully this will be information a lot of people, including myself, have been wanting to see.

 

[Black_MagicGT]

Sub'd!

 

[Captainstr8edge]

looking forward to the results.

 

[FIVE-OH]

Is he giving you corrected numbers? Going to be hard to gauge the exact differences with different weather and such. As for the power, I've seen lots of dynos of these cars, and the 412 vs 420 doesn't seem to matter as I have seem numbers go either way on the same dyno/same day.

 

[Gremlin85]

Is he giving you corrected numbers? Going to be hard to gauge the exact differences with different weather and such. As for the power, I've seen lots of dynos of these cars, and the 412 vs 420 doesn't seem to matter as I have seem numbers go either way on the same dyno/same day.

Both corrected and uncorrected numbers are on the summary sheet I posted. Uncorrected WHP is 364 vs 368 Corrected. WTQ was 320 uncorrected vs 323 corrected.

I'm disreagarding anything he mentioned as far as comparisons of former 5.0 mustangs that dyno'd there. It'll just over-complicate this.

I'm hoping I can get the LT's installed quickly before the weather changes too much. I'll have both corrected and uncorrected numbers next time as well and we can compare as best we can. This isn't going to be an exact science, but more of a general outline of what can be expected.

 

[Gremlin85]

Finally got the video to work. Not that it's anything special.... better late than never as well