Cracked lash adjuster and destroyed follower

[Osculated]

Had a ticking in my valve train. Pulled the cover and found the following pics, what would cause this? And would I be safe just replacing all the lash adjusters and followers and throwing in a set of cams? Or should I pull the head and have it sent out?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Osculated]

Here are the pictures that didn't get attached

 

[Osculated]

One more.

 

[eighty6gt]

Ouch, how long was that ticking? I guess the follower failed after the lifter bled down and allowed lash to beat things to death.

 

[Wes06]

fffffuuuuuuuuuuu

thats an ugly looking valve train right there.

Could use this as an excuse to upgrade to an aftermarket cam, see if anything else looks like its wearing and replace it.

how many miles?

 

[Kalatrax]

Damn! I'm curious as to how the lifter cracked lol. I would say replace the lifters and followers along with that cam at minimum. I don't think you need to pull the head though. Make sure to clean up all the shavings in the head. Side note as well. I've got some mutha thumprs and lockouts with your name on them

 

[Osculated]

It was ticking very minor for about 3-4 months with no variation, figured it was a cam phaser and would get to it eventually, the second I heard it get worse I pulled it in the garage and pulled the valve cover, that was what I found.

I plan on replacing every lifter and follower on every valve, also an excuse to upgrade cams. I was going to go hot rod cams since I LOVE the sound they have but what are you looking at for the motha thumprs and lockouts Kalatrax?

Also motor has less than 100 miles under 95000

 

[Kalatrax]

It was ticking very minor for about 3-4 months with no variation, figured it was a cam phaser and would get to it eventually, the second I heard it get worse I pulled it in the garage and pulled the valve cover, that was what I found.

I plan on replacing every lifter and follower on every valve, also an excuse to upgrade cams. I was going to go hot rod cams since I LOVE the sound they have but what are you looking at for the motha thumprs and lockouts Kalatrax?

Also motor has less than 100 miles under 95000

I'm looking for $650 shipped for the cams and lockouts.

 

[05gtowner]

Have you drained the oil or cut open the filter to see if there is any metal in either? That honestly looks bad but salvageable. I would do lash adjusters, followers, cams and a complete frpp timing kit. With a bit under 95k what not?

 

[Osculated]

In the head there wasn't much "metal" per say, however there was a fair amount of metal dust built up. I didn't see any actual metal pieces or shavings.

The noise was clearly in the valve train, and was a tapping that went with the speed of the engine. There was zero drivability issues, and there was no distinct crunch and continuous loud noise which would be present if there was a bent valve or there was valve to piston contact.

I also put a gauge on the motor to see if there was any valves getting stuck open (prior to valve cover removal). There was no fluctuation in the pressure or anything, which you would see if there was a valve stuck open.

I am hoping to get away without pulling the head off the motor, I was hoping to see if anyone else had encountered this issue, or if anyone had anything specifically that they think I should pull the head. My biggest concern would be having a lifter crack again and having to repeat this process after paying all this money to get it back running again.

As of now the head is still on the motor, but I have a short list of parts being ordered now as:

FRPP Hot Rod Cams
FRPP Lash adjusters and followers (set of 24)
Valve Cover Gaskets
FRPP Phaser Bolts

Any other insight as to what I should replace while I am in there?

I was considering the timing set as well that way I can just take everything off and then re time the motor after.

speaking of retiming a motor how difficult is the 3V to re time?

 

[DiMora]

I've been through this on an old Ford 335 series V-8...the problem with metal in the engine is that it may have migrated and contaminated the main bearings and the engine could fail. That is what happened to me...I lost a lifter and cam lobe and the carnage was impressive when the whole engine was torn down. On the flip-side, you might be fine, but it would suck to trash new cams.

If it were me, I think I would find an OEM stock cam that someone gave me for cheap, replace any other trashed parts, and drive the car for another 9,000-12,000 miles to see what happens so you don't trash any new parts. You might have metal in the phasers as well.

 

[Kylar]

I've been through this on an old Ford 335 series V-8...the problem with metal in the engine is that it may have migrated and contaminated the main bearings and the engine could fail. That is what happened to me. On the flip-side, you might be fine, but it would suck to trash new cams.

If it were me, I think I would find an OEM stock cam that someone gave me for cheap, replace any other trashed parts, and drive the car for another 9,000-12,000 miles to see what happens so you don't trash any new parts.

What Dimora said.

I would remove all metal shavings etc from the heads, clean them good, then coat them with some oil. also flush the engine out good, maybe even clean the pan and pickup. then do 3-4 oil changes with low mile intervals with some cheap dino oil. Its worth the piece of mind.

Maybe im a little paranoid, but i also have a subaru backround and if you look at those wrong they spin bearings...lol

 

[05gtowner]

I wasn't worried about the top end I would be worried about your bottom end. That dust has likely made it to your bearings by now and with almost 95000 on the clock it is cheap insurance to do what others have suggested. I would strongly recommend getting the timing kit. It comes with everything you need to retime the motor.

 

[Osculated]

Thanks for the input guys, I was going to throw the cams in, with new followers and lash adjusters, I will also do the timing set. My plan once it got back up and running was to fill it with cheap oil and change it after two days of driving, then refill with cheap stuff again and change again after two days and do this like 3-4 times and then fill it back up with royal purple which I have religiously used since I have owned the car.

 

[DiMora]

Not an S197, but nevertheless, here is what my bearings looked like after metal ran through them... There was only 12,000 on the build when it died a a result of a cam lobe and lifter being wiped out:

 

[Osculated]

Ouch that is rough!!

I will update this post as I continue the rebuilding and discovery process.

 

[AbdullaGT500]

I would just put a used cam and change the bad follower on that side. I would also change the remaining lash adjusters on that side. Change the oil twice. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[eighty6gt]

I don't think repeatedly changing the oil is going to do much, maybe get a bore scope into the pan to see how much solid material is sitting in there. I believe you can pull the pan with some finagling if required.

The oil pump screen and oil filter should really help with the chunks. For foreign cam parts to get to the bearings they have to make it through these items.

I'd wonder how the oil pump is doing, probably worth a look in there. Did not jam and shatter due to zero clearance and hard bits of metal, obviously.


Good luck!

 

[Wild White Pony]

IMO even at 90k miles or so I would tear it down and freshen up (Pressure clean,hone,bearings, gaskets and rings)if it happened to me, would never chance spending money throwing new lash adjusters, followers, thumper cams and rolling the dice as is. But I think this has happened enough to people here that every time I read this thread I think of what John Voight would say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdPyXjO2Qso

 

[Osculated]

I am pulling both heads out and sending them to be checked for valve clearances as well as planing them if need be.

As of now i have all the random stuff on top of the motor pulled. Need to drain the oil and coolant and then pull the water pump, timing cover and then the heads.

I don't expect it to be cheap, I also don't expect to just throw this together, i want it done correctly and if that means spending extra time and money to save me a headache in the long run then i am going to do it that way.