Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger Results

[xtreme02gt]

To me that seems weak......

 

[jymontoya]

Has anyone noticed that the problems with this kit are similar to problems people have with the aftermarket throttle bodies?

hmmm...

 

[jasonsny]

To clear the on this topic, Edelbrock’s Engineering Manager of the Supercharger Division had this to say:

First, it is normal that the boost rises at the top of the RPM range. This is due to the fact that the TVS supercharger achieves a much higher volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs, while the engine achieves its peak volumetric efficiency at peak torque, and declines slightly with RPM above that. The phenomenon that Dan is describing is the fact that the rate at which the supercharger is expelling air per each revolution is increasing, while the rate at which the engine is ingesting air per each revolution is decreasing.

This is a bit contrary to what most are used to seeing with "positive displacement" superchargers. This is due to the very definition of a positive displacement supercharger, which is that the unit will expel a fixed volume of air with each revolution regardless of RPM. This definition is only partially true, as it neglects the factor of volumetric efficiency (V.E.). For instance, the TVS supercharger that we are using is rated at 2.3L / rev. This means that it will displace 2.3L of air with every revolution, assuming 100% volumetric efficiency. Because no supercharger is 100% efficient, the actual rate at which it displaces air will be 2.3L multiplied by the V.E. So when the V.E. increases, the airflow increases as well.

Due to the fact that most other superchargers do not increase in V.E. to the degree that the TVS does, the Boost remains more consistent throughout. To accurately compare boost levels over the majority of the RPM range, we quote the mean boost level, after the intercooler before the spike. On our standard 1580 kit, the actual boost numbers look like this:

RPM Manifold Press (psig)
2600 4.954
3000 5.590
3500 5.467
3800 5.563
4000 5.435
4300 5.563
4500 5.467
4600 5.660
4700 5.467
4800 5.595
4900 5.660
5000 5.819
5100 5.980
5200 6.108
5300 6.076
5400 6.172
5500 6.461
5600 6.556
5700 6.781
5800 6.653
5900 6.973
6000 7.134
6100 7.390
6200 7.582

The correct location for monitoring boost on our supercharger is at the 1/8" NPT port at the back of the passenger side intake runner flange. This will yield the actual boost pressure after the intercooler pressure drop.

Hopefully this helps explain the standard for boost measurement.

 

[ZmanM3]

To clear the on this topic, Edelbrock’s Engineering Manager of the Supercharger Division had this to say:

First, it is normal that the boost rises at the top of the RPM range. This is due to the fact that the TVS supercharger achieves a much higher volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs, while the engine achieves its peak volumetric efficiency at peak torque, and declines slightly with RPM above that. The phenomenon that Dan is describing is the fact that the rate at which the supercharger is expelling air per each revolution is increasing, while the rate at which the engine is ingesting air per each revolution is decreasing.

This is a bit contrary to what most are used to seeing with "positive displacement" superchargers. This is due to the very definition of a positive displacement supercharger, which is that the unit will expel a fixed volume of air with each revolution regardless of RPM. This definition is only partially true, as it neglects the factor of volumetric efficiency (V.E.). For instance, the TVS supercharger that we are using is rated at 2.3L / rev. This means that it will displace 2.3L of air with every revolution, assuming 100% volumetric efficiency. Because no supercharger is 100% efficient, the actual rate at which it displaces air will be 2.3L multiplied by the V.E. So when the V.E. increases, the airflow increases as well.

Due to the fact that most other superchargers do not increase in V.E. to the degree that the TVS does, the Boost remains more consistent throughout. To accurately compare boost levels over the majority of the RPM range, we quote the mean boost level, after the intercooler before the spike. On our standard 1580 kit, the actual boost numbers look like this:

RPM Manifold Press (psig)
2600 4.954
3000 5.590
3500 5.467
3800 5.563
4000 5.435
4300 5.563
4500 5.467
4600 5.660
4700 5.467
4800 5.595
4900 5.660
5000 5.819
5100 5.980
5200 6.108
5300 6.076
5400 6.172
5500 6.461
5600 6.556
5700 6.781
5800 6.653
5900 6.973
6000 7.134
6100 7.390
6200 7.582

The correct location for monitoring boost on our supercharger is at the 1/8" NPT port at the back of the passenger side intake runner flange. This will yield the actual boost pressure after the intercooler pressure drop.

Hopefully this helps explain the standard for boost measurement.

Welcome to the site. Interesting first post and good info.

 

[jasonsny]

JDM 633 Rwhp with Edelbrock E-Force

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYOheKCQIk

If you haven't seen this, it's worth checking out.

 

[navbtcret]

People are being awful hasty to judge this kit and it has not even had any track results yet. We'll see what it produces at the track pulley size vs. pulley size of the other kits running a 2.3L blower. That'll be the utlimate determination.

 

[don_w]

People are being awful hasty to judge this kit and it has not even had any track results yet. We'll see what it produces at the track pulley size vs. pulley size of the other kits running a 2.3L blower. That'll be the utlimate determination.

Personally, I'm not judging the kit per se. It is the misleading propaganda that disturbs me. To make some power claim at "6 psi", and then find out it's really 9+ psi... well, that's just not good. And I fully understand the VE discussion above, but it doesn't diminish the fact that some extraordinary claims have been made that just haven't been shown to be true.

And I also would like to see some track times... soon I hope!

 

[joe@jdm]

Jim III is DYING to get to the track, he had to stay here and miss Bradenton and we still have snow on the ground at Englishtown.

Besides, most people want results on a stock motor, which we can't provide because we only got the one kit so far and it went on a built motor.

 

[navbtcret]

Personally, I'm not judging the kit per se. It is the misleading propaganda that disturbs me. To make some power claim at "6 psi", and then find out it's really 9+ psi... well, that's just not good. And I fully understand the VE discussion above, but it doesn't diminish the fact that some extraordinary claims have been made that just haven't been shown to be true.

And I also would like to see some track times... soon I hope!

With any luck the weather will cooperate here and I'll be hitting the track on opening weekend, 4 April, and I'll have some track numbers. Now I am not stock, I have a forged short block, Brenspeed twin screw cams and i'll be running the 2.75 pulley too. But I did not stroke the motor or do anything to the heads just beefed up the bottom end is all. I also have 4r70w transmission with a PI 3k stall converter.

This is also dependent on Edelbrock shipping the other puleys by then too. I have the blower on the car but I am waiting for pulley's to tune it, they are supposed to ship this Friday but then they were supposed to ship last Friday too so we'll see. The car is at Powerhouse waiting to be tuned when they arrive.

Plus I want to see what kind of boost I am seeing with the 2.75 pulley and see how it reacts at the upper rpm's. How high it climbs the 2.75 pulley is supposed to be 13-15 psi so we'll see soon I hope.

 

[don_w]

With any luck the weather will cooperate here and I'll be hitting the track on opening weekend, 4 April, and I'll have some track numbers. Now I am not stock, I have a forged short block, Brenspeed twin screw cams and i'll be running the 2.75 pulley too. But I did not stroke the motor or do anything to the heads just beefed up the bottom end is all. I also have 4r70w transmission with a PI 3k stall converter.

This is also dependent on Edelbrock shipping the other puleys by then too. I have the blower on the car but I am waiting for pulley's to tune it, they are supposed to ship this Friday but then they were supposed to ship last Friday too so we'll see. The car is at Powerhouse waiting to be tuned when they arrive.

Plus I want to see what kind of boost I am seeing with the 2.75 pulley and see how it reacts at the upper rpm's. How high it climbs the 2.75 pulley is supposed to be 13-15 psi so we'll see soon I hope.

Can't wait to read about the ETs! Try to get video if you can!

 

[Buckman]

Can't wait to read about the ETs! Try to get video if you can!

More than likely I will be meeting Ron out there on opening weekend so you can guarantee my wife will be working double time with the video camera!
I am really looking forward to seeing this kit in action.

 

[travelers]

Because no supercharger is 100% efficient, the actual rate at which it displaces air will be 2.3L multiplied by the V.E. So when the V.E. increases, the airflow increases as well.

So what percentage did you use for your calculations?

 

[firestang70]

Ron I look forward to seeing that piss yellow monster run!

 

[4tun8]

I'd like to see what the AIT and EGT look like with this kit.

 

[mygt500]

Also Rick, do they (Edelbrock) offer other pulleys? If they consider that their 6 psi, I wonder what boost numbers look like with a 10 psi pulley? Have you guys had a chance to push this thing to it's limits yet and see what max boost is? I still think it's one of the nicest looking units out there and I personally would rather have my TB in front like the Edelbrock.

Could you imagine if the boost climbs the same at 10 psi as it did on 6 psi?....it would climb to over 15psi at 6500+rpms......then I would bet the motor (being stock) would go boom or not last long...
On the other hand its time to forge anyway

 

[navbtcret]

Could you imagine if the boost climbs the same at 10 psi as it did on 6 psi?....it would climb to over 15psi at 6500+rpms......then I would bet the motor (being stock) would go boom or not last long...
On the other hand its time to forge anyway

Mine did not react this way, with the 13 psi pulley I am running 13.5 psi.

 

[05xgt]

Good numbers, but it was too quiet for me. I feel if you're gonna be blown might as well let everyone know it, unless you wanna build a sleeper. LOL Has good eye appeal as well.

 

[explict]

Not a fan of the look of the blower. It's cool if you want to be sleeper, just say you got some edelbrock covers.

I like the look of the blower on top better. No covers!

As for the times, we will have to wait and see..

 

[ROUSH1711]

Thanks Rick,I cant believe I missed this thread

Mine did not react this way, with the 13 psi pulley I am running 13.5 psi.

Thank you for posting your experience