Ford Racing Dual Pump Voltage Tables

[Turbotungsten]

Please help! I am running out of fuel with the Ford Racing Dual Pump system. My car is a single turbo car. At 7 psi, all is well, pressure is 38-40, AF steady 11.4-11.5, MAF at 3.4 volts or so, pump duty cycle is a little over 80%. At 11psi I start to loose it. pressure is around 36, AF OK, but maybe gets around 11.7, pump duty cycle about 94%, MAF around 3.7 volts. By 14psi I go lean and pressure is around 30, but pump duty cycle isn't any higher. I have the stock numbers in the pump voltage table, but with the duty cycle not at 100% I am not totally (but mostly)convinced that it is the voltage table. I am guessing that at 11psi I am around 520RWHP (ported heads, custom cams), but I would think this fuel system is good for 600RWHP. Does anyone have some numbers to plug into my voltage table as a good starting point? Any other pointers as to what is happening here? Thanks!!

 

[deebo05]

start with the gt500 fuel pump data.

what software are you tuning with?

 

[truckman7]

I'm not sure but I think the fuel pumps are rated at 100% for 600hp. But in ur tune the duty cycle might only be set at 80-85%. At 80% hp would be bout 480. Since ur at 520 I think that's roughly 87% of the duty cycle. They don't want you to go much higher than that b/c of a lean issue. Answer. Get a bigger fuel pump/system. I got the gt500 pumps made 576/522 with 60lb injectors at 80% duty cycle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turbotungsten]

Truckman, I changed max pump duty cycle in my tune from 90 to 100 percent when I initially did my tune. I thought the same thing and when back in to make sure that I changed it.

Deebo, I am using delta force software. Do you know where I can find GT 500 table?

Thanks to both of you for your help!

 

[JeremyH]

So your guessing power? You may just be out of pump what is Voltage at the time? Miles on fuel filter? My old turbo setup made 560rwhp at 11-12psi on pump and my twin setup makes 611rwhp at 10psi on e85. 9:1 281 motor stock heads. You might actually be out of fuel. Granted loading the correct tables will help and checking charging system health etc.

 

[truckman7]

Easiest way to yells to hook up a fuel pressure gauge and watch it when in wot. Look for the pressure drop. If you get one. You need a bigger pump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[truckman7]

Also. What maf are you using. Ba5000 or a mafia. If mafia, make sure it's on the correct setting. I believe it's 2 for your hp. If your close to chicago I have a ba5000 nib if you want to borrow it and try that and see what happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turbotungsten]

Thanks for your help guys. To answer some questions: I am estimating my HP level, and I agree, I simply may be out of volume. I will change my filter for good measure. I am running a PMAS extended range meter, and seems to be doing good. I will look at fuel pump volts, and am embarrassed to say I haven't looked at that. More to follow after I drive the car and data log some more. Any word from anyone on GT 500 voltage table? Truckman, that was super cool of you on the BA 5000 offer.

 

[truckman7]

No problem brother. Let me know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deebo05]

here you go.

 

[truckman7]

Just curious. What hp are you shooting for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turbotungsten]

Thanks for the voltage table. I will play with that over the next few days. I am shooting for low 600s at the tire on 93 octane.

 

[truckman7]

Thanks for the voltage table. I will play with that over the next few days. I am shooting for low 600s at the tire on 93 octane.

I'm surprised the gt500 pumps alone won't get u to that. Mines at 576/522 at the tire with room to move up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deebo05]

input those gains also if you haven't already

 

[Turbotungsten]

I should also add that I installed ford GT pumps in the GT 500 basket. There has been some debate as to whether or not they outflow the 500 pumps. I could also have a line leaking inside the tank. I haven't touched the gains either, so I will do that as well.

 

[BruceH]

What are you commanding for psi at the rail? It's under returnless fuel pump. FWIW I've found the frps to work just fine for logging fuel psi. It's a pretty accurate psi indicator imo.


FWIW a stock GT500 pump setup will max out around 625 on a GT500 with the stock injectors and gasoline. One way to get a little headroom is with a larger power wire. Another is with a single 40 amp bap wired into both pumps.

 

[JeremyH]

I should also add that I installed ford GT pumps in the GT 500 basket. There has been some debate as to whether or not they outflow the 500 pumps. I could also have a line leaking inside the tank. I haven't touched the gains either, so I will do that as well.

How did you install them? If you attempted to reuse the factory slip on pump output on top for both pumps I would most definitely bet you have a leak. It doesn't seal right on them, I built and tested quite a few different pumps like that on the twin hat with no luck on any. My solution was to gut the hat and use a Y feed and a GT hat siphon to solve the problem. The supercar pumps do flow better, they flow around 255-260lph each vice oem gt500 at 225-230lph each. I have built quite a few twin ford gt pump hats the way I mentioned above putting out 700-725rwhp. The gt500 pumps alone are done around 625-650rwhp without upgrades.

 

[truckman7]

From my experience. If you used the clear lines that come with alot of the kits They pop off. Than the car either shuts down or runs like shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turbotungsten]

If remember correctly, I used nylon sleeves over the pump nipples, and then used submersible lines. Also, I noticed that the lb/min axis on the voltage table goes to 8, where the stock table is less than 3. Do I still just input the table?

 

[BruceH]

Please help! I am running out of fuel with the Ford Racing Dual Pump system. My car is a single turbo car. At 7 psi, all is well, pressure is 38-40, AF steady 11.4-11.5, MAF at 3.4 volts or so, pump duty cycle is a little over 80%. At 11psi I start to loose it. pressure is around 36, AF OK, but maybe gets around 11.7, pump duty cycle about 94%, MAF around 3.7 volts. By 14psi I go lean and pressure is around 30, but pump duty cycle isn't any higher. I have the stock numbers in the pump voltage table, but with the duty cycle not at 100% I am not totally (but mostly)convinced that it is the voltage table. I am guessing that at 11psi I am around 520RWHP (ported heads, custom cams), but I would think this fuel system is good for 600RWHP. Does anyone have some numbers to plug into my voltage table as a good starting point? Any other pointers as to what is happening here? Thanks!!

Have you tried using GT500 numbers for the table? They are available in the SCT software, surely HP Tuners has this file or the support forum has access to it.

The returnless fuel pump tables are set up to learn what they need over time but that's not the best solution because it takes time, isn't exact, and is limited to what you allow for adaptive learning. IIRC the factory setting will allow for less than 30% correction. It's been awhile since I've looked at it.

FWIW I've maxed my returnless fp duty cycle to 100% on a data log. The fact that you aren't making the commanded fp drop (what are you commanding?) and aren't at 100% goes against anything I've seen.

My experience is limited to the stock pump and GT500 pumps with and without a bap. I've always used the available value files for pumps and allowed adaptive to correct up to 40%. Haven't had to adjust anything because I've always been at commanded rail psi until I ran out of pump.