Ford Racing Dual Pump Voltage Tables

[Turbotungsten]

I am commanding 40. I do agree, it's a little odd that I am losing pressure and still have duty cycle left. It drops off to low 30s, and then creeps back up to 36/37.

 

[deebo05]

thought you had the gt500 pumps, so those gains aren't right that I posted that's what is causing your problems.

gains for ford gt pumps on a 3v
d=0.000
I=.1796
p=0.000

yes renormalize your axis to match that voltage table and set your max flow to 7.99 or 8.

like bruce said voltage is adaptive over time.

 

[13726548]

Also. What maf are you using. Ba5000 or a mafia. If mafia, make sure it's on the correct setting. I believe it's 2 for your hp. If your close to chicago I have a ba5000 nib if you want to borrow it and try that and see what happens.


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Anyone know offhand the ballpark number for the max horsepower rating on a Mafia? Has anyone gone beyond setting #2?

 

[Pentalab]

Is the fuel sock on the pump clean ? When mine clogged up, the FPDC skyrocketed, and fuel rail pressure dropped way down...and that was with a good fuel filter. Even with the sock a bit clogged, you can see the FPDC slowly start to rise. With the sock clean, and a new fuel filter, my FPDC is 36% at 750 rpm idle..... and 80% @ 6 krpm.

Bigger gauge wire, like 8 ga would help a lot. If the bigger wire gauge doesn't do the trick, then install a BAP.

 

[Turbotungsten]

Ok folks, work has gotten the best of me and I have been unable to try any if the changes that have been selected. I will input the suggested gains and voltage table and check it out. If that doesn't work, then I will change the filter and pump socks, and check connections in the pump assembly. If that doesn't work, then I will modify one of my stock hats as suggested, and maybe upgrade my power wire. I will keep you all posted, but it will be a few days until I start. Thank you all as this has been great help.

 

[Turbotungsten]

ok, so I normalized the pump voltage table and input the voltage numbers, but I am trying to find the gains in my Delta Force software.

I found "returnless pump gain" which had a factory setting of .055
I found "fuel pump gain for derivative of delta-p" which had a factory setting 0

can anyone help me figure out what the remaining gain is called in my software so that I can locate it?

 

[Turbotungsten]

I think I found all three of them.

"returnless pump gain" which had a factory setting of .055
"fuel pump gain for derivative of delta-p" which had a factory setting of 0
"returnless fuel press feedback gain for integral of delta-p error" factory setting .30

can anyone confirm that I am in the right place?

Thanks a million

 

[deebo05]

yes, those control the pressure loss and spikes.

derivative, proportional, integral are the what you are looking for..

 

[Turbotungsten]

I finally had enough time to mess with my car some more. Here is what I have done.

I changed the voltage tables to the GT500 tables, but that did nothing.

I put in the GT500 gains, and that did nothing.

I put in the ford gt pump gains that Deebo gave me, and that did nothing.

I pulled the hat and got rid of all the corrugated plastic line and put in submersible line. This brought my duty cycle way down, but my FRP was about 21 with 13 PSI of boost, and of course went lean, and about 25 PSI with 7 psi of boost. But.... my duty cycle was 70% at 7psi, and 80% at 13 psi.

I went back and put in GT500 gains and FRP went up to near commanded (37psi), and duty cycle was 72%. I haven't turned the boost up yet, but I am running to town in a couple min to get fuel and will check it out.

While I am typing, does anyone have low and high slope numbers, and break point for semiens 60lb injectors at 39 psi?. I currently have 57.2460 for my high slope, 64.8072 for low slope, .00001400 for breakpoint.

 

[BruceH]

This should do it. Double check but I'm fairly certain the FRPP 60lb. injectors are Siemens.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/parts/ics/m-9593-lu60.pdf

 

[Turbotungsten]

Thanks Bruce. I checked and they are the same. I put in the voltage offset, break point, and h/l slope values. I will drive the car tomorrow and check it out. I will probably have to adjust mass air transfer function a bit.

Also, I still cant go beyond 12psi of boost. My FRP goes down. at 12 psi now it drops to about 36, but a/f isn't falling of yet. By 14 PSI I am down to 32 and starting to go lean (FP duty cycle is about 95 by then). I just don't understand why commanded fuel pressure isn't there when pumps aren't maxed out.

 

[Turbotungsten]

I want to correct my last post as I had a typo. By 14PSI I am down 22 PSI fuel pressure and 85% duty cycle. What gives? I still have duty cycle left, but commanded pressure cannot be reached. Is there anything else in my tune that I need to look at?

 

[BruceH]

Are you maxing out the maf? Are you allowing for more than the stock value in maf counts? How about the wot air multiplier or correction for the same?

 

[Turbotungsten]

Are you maxing out the maf? Are you allowing for more than the stock value in maf counts? How about the wot air multiplier or correction for the same?

Bruce, MAF is around 3.7 V (plenty of room there) Air Charge WOT correction is 1.9, and Air Charge Anticipation Correction is 1.8 (is this what you are talking about, as it seems that SCT and Delta Force software have some different language?) Max load for MAF computation is 2.0

I am sorry to keep bugging you guys on this one, but it's driving me nuts. I really appreciate the help, and the understanding my limited tuning experience. I know just enough to be dangerous.

 

[Turbotungsten]

Well, I quit messing with this for a while, but I slowed down with work and have been messing with the car some more.

I wanted to eliminate a variable, so i reinstalled the gt500 pumps back in the gt500 hat, so here is my fuel system: Ford Racing dual pump system with 60lb injectors. The only think that is not original Ford racing system is that I have replaced all the corrugated line with submersible line. I have put in the GT500 pump voltage tables , and have the gains set as such.

Derivative= .000
Integral= .0550
Proportional= .060


I still have a problem, but not as bad. Here it is...

When driving around not under boost delta pressure is great.. nice and steady commanded 39

at 7 psi of boost it drops to 36, but commanded is still 39

at 12 psi of boost it drops to 33, but commander is still 39

What gives????? even at 12psi I am only at 76% duty cycle

Can I change any of my gains to help this? Is my FRP sensor bad? Is there something else in the tune that I should be looking at? It's better, but still not good.

I if had them money laying around I would go return style. I am to the point that I thought about just commanding 45psi, and adjusting the tune for the higher pressure, then I would be in the high 30's under boost. I know, that's a poor band aid, but man... what gives. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I wish that I would have bought SCT advantage software instead of Sniper. I am not knocking Sniper, but there are just more people that could help with looking at my tune with SCT.

 

[deebo05]

what are the injectors doing, how does the pulsewidth look at wot?

how does the maf curve look are the lb/min numbers somewhat reasonable for your maf housing size and airflow?

wideband in good shape?

 

[Turbotungsten]

I was unable to data log injector functions. I am using an old Diablo predator and it shows injector 1 through 8, but it just has an F next to it, but no values. I did a third gear pull to about 5600 rpm today. At 5600 rpm I was @3.71 volts MAF, 533 g/s MAF flow (I think that converts to 1918 KG/hr if my math is correct), I was at about 12psi boost and showing 158% load. Fuel rail pressure showed 34 and commanded 39 in the predator. Any thoughts?

 

[46addict]

What are you using for rails? Aftermarket rails on stock lines could hurt you in this case.

 

[Turbotungsten]

Stock rails. I just can't figure it out. I would understand a drop in pressure with maxed out pumps, but they are not.

 

[G.T]

here's a shot in the dark..... have you been logging VBAT and VREF voltages?
are you sure the pumps are good? what about the driver modules?