Front suspension popping - forever.

[BMR Tech]

I've been looking around a lot more, nobody seem to run them but I might just get bilsteins of the proper length for the stock springs. I found others who had terrible ride/nvh with the Koni's.

I think a lot of that may have to do with the fact that the Koni's are probably one of the highest volume moving dampers for the S197. The more people who have a part, the more issues you will see.

I am not saying the Koni's are the best - but there are hundreds, likely thousands who love them.

 

[modernbeat]

Was it a one off defect or are you saying Koni shocks are poor quality...?

What do you guys run/recommend?

It was not a one-off. Two of them on this car were bad. And we've seen them fail similarly on other cars, and other models for years.

At that price point, I recommend Bilstein. No knobs, but great longevity and a decent monotube design.

 

[BMR Tech]

^ I do like the monotube design, no doubt.

 

[AutoXRacer]

It was not a one-off. Two of them on this car were bad. And we've seen them fail similarly on other cars, and other models for years.

At that price point, I recommend Bilstein. No knobs, but great longevity and a decent monotube design.

Are they adequate for track duty (road and drag)? Or are they just a street shock/strut?

 

[modernbeat]

Are they adequate for track duty (road and drag)? Or are they just a street shock/strut?

If you think Konis are adaquate for track duty, then yes, the Bilsteins are adaquate also.

When I speak to customers about them I describe the Bilsteins as great daily driver dampers that don't fall on their face on track like the stock stuff does. Yet, I have a lot of customers that track them frequently and love them. For me I really want a stiffer spring for track use, but then I'm a jaded old man.

 

[AutoXRacer]

What is a stiff spring? Do you consider the Steeda Sports stiff?

 

[modernbeat]

No. Not even close.

700 lb/in in a Miata is a good start. 800 lbs/in in the front of our S197 is stiff. My daily has spring that are 5x the stock rates, but it's still streetable due to the damping. I've driven it literally from coast to coast and all over the Rockies in addition to a regular commute. But when the dampers are cold, or when driving slowly over expansion joints, you know it's not plush.

The Bilstein's are the opposite. They are great daily driver dampers, but are, in my opinion, enough to enjoy a track day, but not enough to really push it hard.

 

[BMR Tech]

^ It is very subjective.

Damping can only do so much, to a chassis that hardly moves. Dampening works when there is movement. Reducing movement, reduces absorption. That reduced absorption is then absorbed by your ass.

Most S197 owners will not like front rates over 350-400~ and rear rates over 250~ regardless of the dampers being used.

Your opinion of those stiff rates, I would equate to my opinion of suspension pivot points and engine mounts. I want solid mounts, and bearings on every single point....because it performs best, and I don't really notice it. But, the "majority" OR "market"...well, lol

 

[modernbeat]

For most of our S197 setups we use 450-600 front spring rates. They work well with the tires and other parts on the cars and are still streetable. For our competition car with massive tires and front aero, the 800 springs work well, but they are a compromise on the street.

On the other hand, four haters have bought cars similar to my daily after driving it. The dampers make the difference.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Going back to the popping...yeah, just noticed today that my front end sounds like a messed up joint. Not sure how to describe it, but sounds like a joint is dislocating itself...has that marbly blown bearing sound. So indeed it could be the camber plates as those have bearings in them. Damn, I will have to take the front end apart. sigh

So what do you guys recommend? I like having that additional 2-3 degrees of adjustment.

 

[eighty6gt]

What dampers are you running?

My car sounds like my '86 when I bought it. Marble noises like you describe. Replaced the struts with the cheapest ones on earth and the noises went away. Same noises with gt500 upper mounts and with Steeda.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I'm running Koni Sports (yellow). They roughly have 13k miles with J&M camber plates with at least 35k miles (not sure how old they are.

 

[modernbeat]

Going back to the popping...yeah, just noticed today that my front end sounds like a messed up joint. Not sure how to describe it, but sounds like a joint is dislocating itself...has that marbly blown bearing sound. So indeed it could be the camber plates as those have bearings in them. Damn, I will have to take the front end apart. sigh

So what do you guys recommend? I like having that additional 2-3 degrees of adjustment.

If you think any of the joints, whether it's the camber plate, ball joint, inner or outer tie rod, then get it up on ramps or a four-post lift (with weight on the front tires) and have one person under it while the other steers back and forth. You may be able to see if there is movement or lack of it when it should be moving. To check the camber plate upper bearing, put the car on the floor and a jack under the a-arm. Use a very bright light trained on the bearing through the hole in the top of the strut tower. Use the jack to move the arm up and down while you watch the relationship between the strut shaft and the rest of the mount. If the shaft is moving up and down relative to the mount, the bearing is bad, or something is not tightened down.

 

[eighty6gt]

Talked to a fellow at MM about his experiences with customers and NVH on their cars. He prefaced everything he said by saying that they are in the business of making cars handle, not in dealing with NVH, and that he wasn't really bothered by noise...

Long story short, the Steeda upper mounts aren't helping, nor are the Koni's compared to an OEM damper. He says he doesn't hear from many people with issues with the Koni orange struts, but he does hear from a lot of GT500 folks saying their cars ride poorly with stock setups. He said a strut like a Bilstein will be even stiffer, even worse.

He said that it probably wouldn't be possible to dumb down a very expensive damper or spring set to work well on poor roads, and you'd have wayyyyy too much money in a system like that to make it worthwhile. Cheaper to buy a BMW. True!

I ordered one of their trick, cheap camber gauges for the advice. I'm going to get the 2014 OEM GT parts coming in the mail in a little while.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Talked to a fellow at MM about his experiences with customers and NVH on their cars. He prefaced everything he said by saying that they are in the business of making cars handle, not in dealing with NVH, and that he wasn't really bothered by noise...

Long story short, the Steeda upper mounts aren't helping, nor are the Koni's compared to an OEM damper. He says he doesn't hear from many people with issues with the Koni orange struts, but he does hear from a lot of GT500 folks saying their cars ride poorly with stock setups. He said a strut like a Bilstein will be even stiffer, even worse.

He said that it probably wouldn't be possible to dumb down a very expensive damper or spring set to work well on poor roads, and you'd have wayyyyy too much money in a system like that to make it worthwhile. Cheaper to buy a BMW. True!

I ordered one of their trick, cheap camber gauges for the advice. I'm going to get the 2014 OEM GT parts coming in the mail in a little while.

What 2014 parts?

 

[eighty6gt]

2014 GT track package dampers, springs, and mounts, and if possible, swaybars. Take off units with 0 miles, including upper mounts.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Those model year parts fit our cars?

 

[eighty6gt]

According to brother Skwerl! Can't see why not.

My plan is to install them, and also dynamat the inside of the shock towers and portions of the firewall next year. Finally, develop a STB with billet ends that fits over the TVS.

 

[AutoXRacer]

According to brother Skwerl! Can't see why not.

My plan is to install them, and also dynamat the inside of the shock towers and portions of the firewall next year. Finally, develop a STB with billet ends that fits over the TVS.

Have you found one that fits over the TVS and under the stock hood?

 

[eighty6gt]

There isn't one - I have to make it. I have 2 friends with tubing benders. Thing is, 1" chromo will probably kink. Cut/section and brace? Don't know what I'll do.