Heat Pump????
- Thread starter tjm73
- Start date
michael.konor
forum member
Those things are GREAT, especially with the new specialized Freon they use that allow it to continue to work when outside air temperatures are below freezing.
Essentially, it turns your AC system into a heat generator by pulling heat into your interior unit, instead of trying to pull it out of your house. I keep my house at 78* in the winter, and my highest electric bill has been $161 with 2700 sq ft and 12' ceilings. Saves me quite a bit of $$ in the winter. Oh yea, my unit is a Rheem.
Essentially, it turns your AC system into a heat generator by pulling heat into your interior unit, instead of trying to pull it out of your house. I keep my house at 78* in the winter, and my highest electric bill has been $161 with 2700 sq ft and 12' ceilings. Saves me quite a bit of $$ in the winter. Oh yea, my unit is a Rheem.
Do you need it for heat? If all you want is AC then an actual AC unit is actually more efficient at cooling than the heatpump. If you also want to have the heat available, then go with a heatpump. Make sure you question your HVAC guy about the unit you are getting. Unless things have changed since I built my house, a heat pump is only good down to about 45 degrees by itself. Units that are going to be used as the main heat source have supplemental electric heating elements in them.
I have my house setup with heatpumps and gas heat. The heatpumps cool in the warm weather and in the cold weather, heat down to 45*, then the gas takes over.
Earl
I have my house setup with heatpumps and gas heat. The heatpumps cool in the warm weather and in the cold weather, heat down to 45*, then the gas takes over.
Earl
michael.konor
forum member
With the new designs of the units itself, as well as the specially formulated Freon, the units are full capable of efficient use below freezing.
Nowadays, the thermostats have a setting called "EM Heat" which is emergency heating which cause the old-fashioned heating coils to turn on and make that electric meter just spin like crazy. Now, "Heat" is the norm and is when the heat pump is doing it's job.
So, when you need that quick warming, you flip it to EM Heat and you can smell that initial heat coil dust burn. Or... you can raise your thermostat by 3+ degrees, and EM Heat automatically kicks in until it reaches temp and then goes back to "Heat" mode.
Mustang-mike
Shwetty member
A heat pump uses a reversing valve which shifts the flow of the refrigerant circuit so that the heat exchange is reversed in heating mode. You will heat the inside of your house with it, and a cooling effect will be exchanged out to the condenser. This is reversed back in the cooling mode, heat exchanged to the condenser and cooling at the air handler in the house.
Are you in New York now? If so they are probably quoting you heat pumps because of rebates being offered in dual fuel applications ( heat pump and oil furnace combos ). But keep in mind that the heat pump becomes inefficient at temps below 42-45 degrees, the reason why is because the heat pump goes into a defrost mode (the condenser outside will turn into an ice cube at these ambient temps). If this happens your furnace takes over while your heat pump is defrosting.
I am in the HVAC business so I could go on forever about this stuff!
We are in Upstate/Western NY near Rochester (about an hour east of Buffalo). We have propane furnace and the guys have been pretty honest about them becomeing less efficient down around 40 or so.
They tell us that it will delay the need for the propane furnace till later in the fall and mitigate it's use earlier in the spring. As a result it will reduce our propane expenses by around a $1000/ year (cost us ~$2400 last year). Which is more than the cost of units (all are quoting around $750). We'd save a little this year and then lots going forward.
It sounds like a no brainier but I have never heard of these before and it kinda sound too good to be true.
We only run the A/C when it's pits of hell hot/crazy humid and obviously we like to be warm in the winter. It's not A/C weather all the time. We like the outside fresh air. Usually our windows and doors are open so we can enjoy the breeze. Part of why we live in the country on 5 acres. Plus cool breezes with fresh air costs less. In the fall we don't even turn the heat on till the house starts getting cool (less than 65ish) when we are home. The lights and TV and us warm the house up to a comfortable level pretty quickly and it gets cool while we sleep which we like. Then in the spring when we notice the heat is almost never running we just turn it off. And we use a programmable thermostat.
We both grew up this way so it's just the way we like it.
They tell us that it will delay the need for the propane furnace till later in the fall and mitigate it's use earlier in the spring. As a result it will reduce our propane expenses by around a $1000/ year (cost us ~$2400 last year). Which is more than the cost of units (all are quoting around $750). We'd save a little this year and then lots going forward.
It sounds like a no brainier but I have never heard of these before and it kinda sound too good to be true.
We only run the A/C when it's pits of hell hot/crazy humid and obviously we like to be warm in the winter. It's not A/C weather all the time. We like the outside fresh air. Usually our windows and doors are open so we can enjoy the breeze. Part of why we live in the country on 5 acres. Plus cool breezes with fresh air costs less. In the fall we don't even turn the heat on till the house starts getting cool (less than 65ish) when we are home. The lights and TV and us warm the house up to a comfortable level pretty quickly and it gets cool while we sleep which we like. Then in the spring when we notice the heat is almost never running we just turn it off. And we use a programmable thermostat.
We both grew up this way so it's just the way we like it.
Last edited:
Mustang-mike
Shwetty member
I would put it to you this way then, consider your propane bill from last year and compare that to how many times you used propane when the outside temp was above 45 degrees, if its very low than it might not be worth the extra investment. But if its high, meaning you used propane a lot even when it was above 45 degrees outside then yes you should see a return in investment quickly. I'm not trying to take anything away from the contractors you are talking with I am sure they are great people. Is just that sometimes people will try to sell folks things they don't actually 'need'. The reason I say that is because everyone's living style is different, some like it cold some like it hot lol.
For what it's worth, heat pumps are used vastly here in central florida because believe it or not, it can get a little chilly for a week or two lol. But a resistive type electric strip heater can tax the electric bill considerably. The biggest motivator for heat pumps though are the fact that they are the most efficient in heating and cooling due mostly to their coil capacity and heat transfer capability.
For what it's worth, heat pumps are used vastly here in central florida because believe it or not, it can get a little chilly for a week or two lol. But a resistive type electric strip heater can tax the electric bill considerably. The biggest motivator for heat pumps though are the fact that they are the most efficient in heating and cooling due mostly to their coil capacity and heat transfer capability.
Mustang-mike
Shwetty member
Heil, goodman, Payne, comfort maker, rheem, I think that covers them.
Mustang-mike
Shwetty member
When I was in the field I worked on a lot of machines and these have the highest failure rate and lowest quality. They are cheap but, for a reason.
rayS197
Senior Member
Mike is right about the operation. Do they want to upgrade the furnace as well or switch you out to a HP system all together? I am still in the HVAC industry and like Mike stated I could go on and on. I havent been involved in pricing since I became an Inspector and left the field, but its a no brainer if you have straight AC to just get the HP and have the dual fuel setup as its not much more in pricing. JMO. It will be there if you need it. When I left the field, here in VA there was only a $200-300 difference (pending brand). Make sure the contractor checks the (OCP) over current protection to make sure it will fall in the min or max range.
For equipment you will have different opinions. I like Trane and York equipment but also like GMC/Goodman . They dont have the bells and whistles like the others but work. Goodman/Jantrol introduce the longest warranty a long time ago and no the others have follwed. My house was built in 2008 and I have GMC equipment.
For equipment you will have different opinions. I like Trane and York equipment but also like GMC/Goodman . They dont have the bells and whistles like the others but work. Goodman/Jantrol introduce the longest warranty a long time ago and no the others have follwed. My house was built in 2008 and I have GMC equipment.
That was the first thing out of one guys mouth. The furnace is fine and changing it is not in our budget right now. I am sure a new furnace would be more efficient, but then we'd be looking at around $8500 according to one of the guys for a new heat and air conditioning system. I am also sure it'd pay for itself in the long run, but the upfront cost is too great for us right now.
I work for Johnson Controls and install heat/air and chiller/boiler systems. We do mainly industrial and commercial. York Trane Carrier are your big name units. We sale York units Ive found all of them can have bad units as rheem/Ruud and Payne Ive installed several Goodman units which are cheaper but they have done very well for me so far with no failures. How a unit is installed is the life of it. A good vaccumm gets rid of moisture in the system and non condensables. A properly installed system will last.
rayS197
Senior Member
Unless something has changed, Luxaire is made by York.
Payne= Carrier
American Standard= Trane
GMC=Janitrol. And so on. I had my home built and went with GMC.
Sent from a Galaxy S3
Mustang-mike
Shwetty member
^^^ this, luxaire is decent equipment for the price. Its the same as anything else in the world, cheaper price does not always mean better quality much is the same with the low end brands.
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