Help me out w/ suspension

[fun4me]

I have a '12 brembo, mostly DD. I'm in Chicago and will be driving in the winter on 28" winter tires.
I bought some parts to make the car handle a bit better.
Please tell me if I'm on the right track.

I'm going to install P srings front and 55D rear w/Yellows(for winter), I'm assuming with this low of a rear drop I'm not going to have to correct the suspension geometry.

I also have a set of adjustable Strano sways(front and rear). What settings should i start with for a DD winter set-up?

I'm going to put in a panhard bar in now, since I'll need it later when I go lower.

In the spring I want to run a 18x9.5 rim w/265 40 18 re-11 on the front and a 18x11 w/305 35 18 555R rear. At that point I'll put in the P srings in the rear as well for the additional drop. Would I need to correct the suspension geometry at that point? What is the best way, if I do? How should I adjust the sway bars for the much larger much stickier tires? I also have a Dynotech aluminum Ds installed, if that make a differance in the importance of having a correct pinion angle.

Thanks.

 

[Norm Peterson]

For a winter setup where snow is anticipated I'll suggest going pretty soft. The exact settings probably depend on whether you got the 22mm rear bar or the 25mm - I'm thinking full soft with both bars if you've got the 22mm, mid-firm front with full soft rear if the rear bar is a 25.

Those Konis Yellows are all around, I hope.

What's a 55D?

For an inch lowered - I think that's what the P-springs are good for - there usually isn't enough geometry change to warrant correction as long as you do use a bit more of the car's handling potential. Relo brackets could help all around if the relocating holes aren't too aggressive. What I'd really like to see for 1" lowering is relo brackets with
-1" adjustment holes instead of about -1.5" that looks to be about the minimum commonly available (I'd appreciate any vendor information to the contrary).

The tire and wheel size stagger indicates somewhat heavier understeer, but since the 555R is not going to have as much cornering stiffness it'll run at slightly higher slip angles than an RE-11 in the same size (which will offset or possibly more than compensate for the additional understeer due to the size stagger).

You're opening a rather nasty can of worms by mixing drag radials with hard cornering-intended front tires in a staggered arrangement, so you're kind on your own. Test extensively and cautiously with bar settings, tire pressures, and damper settings. Plan on NOT running the same pressures or damper settings for both the front and rear.


Norm

 

[BMR Tech]

Well said Norm. OP, Norm will typically give some of the best advice possible, so take what he says and run with it.

Norm, a 1" drop on the LCA Mounting point would require modification to the factory mounting system. It would also complicate the mounting of the LCA, as 1" from the original location would cause clearance issue at the top of the LCA Bushing end.

I do agree, that 1" would be great.....but it would be something that the user would need to perform. If someone wants to modify our brackets, I don't think it would negatively impact the structural integrity, but it may be tricky for some to ensure the hole is drilled in the exact position it needs to be.

Here is a picture from American Muscle's web-site that shows what I am talking about.

 

[claudermilk]

What's a 55D?

Custom rear-only springs from the Brembo50 site. http://brembo50.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1200846 They just take out the stock rake in the car. Personally, I don't see the point, either lower it or leave it stock--but that's just me.

 

[Sky Render]

1. Ditch the drag radials. Those things have sidewalls that are about as stiff as a gummy bear.

2. Screw those 55D springs. They don't increase your spring rate, yet give you less suspension travel.

3. Always install new sway bars in the "softest" settings, and adjust from there.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Custom rear-only springs from the Brembo50 site. http://brembo50.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1200846 They just take out the stock rake in the car. Personally, I don't see the point, either lower it or leave it stock--but that's just me.

Thanks. I'd never even heard of them before.


Functionally, dropping the rear adds positive caster at a rate of about +half a degree per inch the rear is lowered, and the rear roll center drops by half an inch per inch. Axle roll steer gets slightly more understeerish. On balance, you're probably giving up more than you gain, although it might "feel better" to those who prefer the stability of a bit more understeer.

Otherwise, it's just an appearance preference (and kind of opposite to what they'd do with a Classic Mustang from the 1960's with its sort of "taildragger" stance). No real harm, and it may even be better for the folks whose first thoughts run to appearance mods and then to engine output.


Norm

3. Always install new sway bars in the "softest" settings, and adjust from there.

Generally, I agree. But if he's got the 25mm rear bar I think he needs to start out with a little more front bar than full soft in order to at least start out from a mild understeer condition.


Norm

 

[Roadracer350]

I have a question... Why were you thinking of running drag radials with RR tyres up front? Im not bashing and I agree with Sky ditch em but I was just wondering the thinking behind that.

 

[fun4me]

Thanks for all the replies.
The reason to run those tires is that there isn't much choice in that heigh and width available. however there is a version of the 555R, the 555RII that has stiffer sidewalls(and seems like what all of you would recommend).

If a geometry correction is needed w/ the 1" drop, I was going to go w/ Steeda relocation brackets, Steeda adjustable UCA, and Steeda Chromoly non-adjustable LCA's. Once again I have a Dynotech aluminum DS and pinion angle seems more important that on a 2 piece DS.

I have the 25mm bar.

I might end-up running the stock springs w/ the yellows(yes, front and rear). Since I'm paying to have the struts to be installed i figuered to try the P springs in the front and then its easy to add them in the back when I put on my Summer tires(re-11's and
555R(II)) . Those tires are 26.4" and would look a lil funny w/o any drop.

All your opinions and advice is highly respected and appreciated.

 

[Sharad]

I have a '12 brembo, mostly DD. I'm in Chicago and will be driving in the winter on 28" winter tires.
I bought some parts to make the car handle a bit better.
Please tell me if I'm on the right track.

I'm going to install P srings front and 55D rear w/Yellows(for winter), I'm assuming with this low of a rear drop I'm not going to have to correct the suspension geometry.

I also have a set of adjustable Strano sways(front and rear). What settings should i start with for a DD winter set-up?

I'm going to put in a panhard bar in now, since I'll need it later when I go lower.

In the spring I want to run a 18x9.5 rim w/265 40 18 re-11 on the front and a 18x11 w/305 35 18 555R rear. At that point I'll put in the P srings in the rear as well for the additional drop. Would I need to correct the suspension geometry at that point? What is the best way, if I do? How should I adjust the sway bars for the much larger much stickier tires? I also have a Dynotech aluminum Ds installed, if that make a differance in the importance of having a correct pinion angle.

Thanks.

As others have mentioned, I'd go with stiffer springs and I wouldn't use DRs for handling.

My one addendum is that even if all four tires were the same brand and model, I definitely wouldn't run 265 front and 305 rears. It would be hard to make it NOT push with that big of a stagger.

 

[fun4me]

Remember, its a streetcar daily driver. The nitto 305's are more like 295's in Re-11, so about an inch of stagger. Why stiffer springs? For the understeer? The nitto 555RII is a roadrace tire, not a real drag radial. How does the P spring w/ yellows feel on the street(bumps, etc)? Any negative consequences from having a stiffer P spring in the front and a relatively soft 55D in the rear? I was thinking about doing stock boss springs in the front also, anybody try this w/ stock(ish)/55D rear springs? Or should I go w/ another spring to help w/ the wide rear tires?
Thanks again.

 

[Sky Render]

Remember, its a streetcar daily driver. The nitto 305's are more like 295's in Re-11, so about an inch of stagger. Why stiffer springs? For the understeer? The nitto 555RII is a roadrace tire, not a real drag radial. How does the P spring w/ yellows feel on the street(bumps, etc)? Any negative consequences from having a stiffer P spring in the front and a relatively soft 55D in the rear? I was thinking about doing stock boss springs in the front also, anybody try this w/ stock(ish)/55D rear springs? Or should I go w/ another spring to help w/ the wide rear tires?
Thanks again.

The 555RII is an R comp...

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[fun4me]

The 555RII is an R comp...

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Not quite. Its got a 100 treadwear rating, lasts 5-8k on the street and doesn't heat cycle out. Once again, there is not a huge choice of tires in this size range that will match to the grip of the RE-11 I will have on the front.
And from my understanding a little stickier in the rear is better than in the front, if mixing compounds.

 

[Sky Render]

Anything under 100 treadwear is considered r comp.

You keep saying this car is only for the street. Then why do you need such stupid-wide tires? 255s or 275s are more than adequate.

And I'm not following your sticky in the rear thing. Drag radials are not sticky in anything other than a straight line.

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[fun4me]

I'm open to suggestions on what tires I could put in the rear. On a 18x11 rim. Maybe PS2 IN 295 35 18 AT 26" tall or the falken 615(k) at 295 40 18 at 27" tall, but I think that either of those will have less grip than the RE-11 in the front and I'm not sure if thats good. Thanks again.

 

[Sky Render]

Why do you need an 18x11 rim on a street car?

 

[Jeremy@AirLift]

There is always air suspension........ http://www.airliftperformance.com/applications/domestics/ford-mustang-performance-suspension/

 

[sheizasosay]

There is always air suspension........ http://www.airliftperformance.com/applications/domestics/ford-mustang-performance-suspension/

How do you dampen the rebound? Do you just have to absorb it all in bump so there is little rebound left? I see where it says your system can monitor and adjust psi on the fly, but unless it creates suction on rebound, I have a hard time seeing that dampen good. What is your target? Corner-Carver section on here isn't about being able to slam your car when you park it and then raise it back up when you're ready to go (although that is neat). The one thing I do see being easy is corner-weighting. Just sit in the car and push buttons lol.

 

[fun4me]

Why do you need an 18x11 rim on a street car?

Because I have them.....

 

[Sky Render]

You might not even be able to fit an 11"-wide wheel on the rear without either installing sway bar relocation brackets or swapping to the Whiteline units. I've never used Strano's bars; I'm not sure if they're compatible with the relocation brackets.

My advice is to sell those wheels and get some slightly narrower ones that give you more options in terms of tire choices.

 

[fun4me]

Custom off-set, I hope they fit. I saw them test-fitted on 2 cars, before I bought them.
I want to try running them, and I'll share my experience w/ all of you once I do.
I might go and test fit them soon, just to sure before I buy 600 bucks worthof tires.

Does anybody think that I'll have any adverse handeling characteristics by using the soft 55D spring in combination w/ the P springs, on my winter setup?

On the sway-bar which holes are full soft?

Any tips for installing the Yellows on the front? I'm thinking about doing it myself. The swaybars seem pretty straighforward, as well as the Panhard and the rear shocks.

What height and strenght jack-stands are good for these cars? Jack?

I read somewhere that the Steeda adjustable UCA loosens up, is that an issue I should be aware of before buying the LCA, Brackets, and UCA from steeda? My idea was to go w/ the Non-adjustable Lca, bracket and adjustable UCA.