JDM 302E Engine Owners - Check In!!

[skwerl]

I'm not sure I'm capable of babying a motor. I don't abuse my vehicles but I've always driven them with the expectation that they will perform correctly and with some zest. IMO taking a high performance engine and driving it like a moped is abuse.

 

[rayS197]

Initially crank it for 20-25 mins until fans turn on, then off, and shut her down.
Dump oil, fill it up with new filter and drive it like you stole it!!!

^^^^ This. No JDM SB here. Same thing I was told from Ford Racing, my friend who helped me with the swap and from quit a few reputable tuners.
Run for 20-25 minutes, check for leaks or odd noises/CEL's. Drain oil, change filter and hammer it or dyno. All of them stated the days of heat cycles and break miles are over.

Is the Ford Racing Aluminator a direct bolt in for us 3V guys?

Yes, everything can be switched right over. Thats what I did.

 

[Vinnie5.0]

JDM is currently building my 302e. I have been going to them since 2006. Pat at level 10 did my trans. PSE super chargers just got done rebuilding the saleen unit that was on the car. Waiting on the rotating assembly to get back from the machine shop. Ford racing heads are on order. They have a set of sterling car cams for me. This is my daily driver. Gonna turn the boost up to 17psi and let it rip. I would trust no one other then Jdm with building a motor for me.

 

[BruceH]

It would be great if someone would make a sticky thread with the top 5 motor builders and there specs.

you know for dumb people like me. lol

GT500 specs:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=168&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

5.0 4v:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=822&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

2011 GT500:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=831&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

4.6 3v:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=158&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

These specs are important for comparison purposes. Why? Because all of these motors hold quite a lot of power in stock form. The thing that always goes first is the rods. You never hear of a spun bearing unless someone put delo in the motor or something along that line of stupidity.

To me it means that Ford factory specs, machining, and parts are very good. It also means that the average person can use Ford specs with stronger components and be just fine with more power. An all out race motor would be different.

All too often people live in the past and don't even bother to think of why clearances are tighter, motors make more power, and they live longer than they ever have. It's because the machining is more precise, better oil is available, and manufacturers know more about internal combustion motors and the theory behind them than they used to. It keeps getting better.

I figure that if a supercharged 5.4 4v with a warranty has a bearing clearance of .0009-.0019" then those are good numbers for my motor. Likewise with the rest of the specs. The only exception is 2618 pistons which need extra clearance to account for metal expansion.

There are lots of theories on motor specs. Why not use the specs with a great track record?

 

[ILW84U]

I had a JDM 302E in my car. Put about 70 miles on it & then it blew on the dyno. There were signs of detonation but could never figure out what the cause was. I gave up after this & put the car back to stock & sold it. I still have the motor if anyone wants to rebuild it!

 

[skwerl]

What kind of power were you pushing when it blew? Although that shouldn't matter since they proudly proclaim this engine to be capable of holding 800-1000hp. Well, except when it doesn't.

I hope like hell mine doesn't blow up in 70 miles or burn a ton of oil. I really don't want to regret my decision.

 

[durr4456]

I had a JDM 302E in my car. Put about 70 miles on it & then it blew on the dyno. There were signs of detonation but could never figure out what the cause was. I gave up after this & put the car back to stock & sold it. I still have the motor if anyone wants to rebuild it!

That's pretty bad

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[rayS197]

Brian.You will be fine. UPR"s 9 sec 3V convertible runs a JDM stroker.

Sent from a Galaxy S3

 

[skwerl]

Ray, I'll swap ya!

 

[msczesny1186]

Damn I was hoping to hear good stuff.

 

[hamish]

I had a JDM 302E in my car. Put about 70 miles on it & then it blew on the dyno. There were signs of detonation but could never figure out what the cause was. I gave up after this & put the car back to stock & sold it. I still have the motor if anyone wants to rebuild it!

That engine is only a bus ride away.
Shoot me a pm if you are serious.

 

[Pentalab]

Skwerl, I just finished talking to the shop.

They said 0.030" for the oil ring is loose...thats where the oil is going.

We are still going to perform a compression and leak-down. But they are pretty confident that the specs on the motor (build sheet above) are considered "loose" tolerances.

So not sure how your setup will perform. But keep use posted on your experience with oil consumption.

## Am I reading your build sheet correctly, it sez .0027" That's one helluva big difference between .0027" + .0300"

No wonder its leaking like a sieve. Is this cuz of the break in procedure you used, or was it something else, like wrong rings used ? I can't see your oil consumption getting any better..anytime soon. It will just get worse if anything. If it's that loose, and way outa spec, the compression would be through the floor. Lower compression would show up in NA or blower mode.

So whats the next step, take it all apart, and replace all the rings ? Who's paying for all this ?

Jimbo

 

[AutoXRacer]

## Am I reading your build sheet correctly, it sez .0027" That's one helluva big difference between .0027" + .0300"

No wonder its leaking like a sieve. Is this cuz of the break in procedure you used, or was it something else, like wrong rings used ? I can't see your oil consumption getting any better..anytime soon. It will just get worse if anything. If it's that loose, and way outa spec, the compression would be through the floor. Lower compression would show up in NA or blower mode.

So whats the next step, take it all apart, and replace all the rings ? Who's paying for all this ?

Jimbo

No, 0.0027 is the piston to wall clearance.
The 0.030 is the oil ring end gap.

Ford specs this out to 0.0059-0.0256.

So JDM does build these motors a little looser than Ford specs. But it could be due to piston expansion.

For comparison:

Top Ring End Gap -
JDM: 0.022
Ford: 0.006-0.012

2nd/Intermediate Ring End Gap -
JDM: 0.024
Ford: 0.0098-0.0197

Oil Control Ring End Gap -
JDM: 0.030
Ford: 0.0059-0.0256

I'll have compression and leak-down numbers tonight when I pick up the car...crossing my fingers everything will be OK.

 

[ILW84U]

What kind of power were you pushing when it blew? Although that shouldn't matter since they proudly proclaim this engine to be capable of holding 800-1000hp. Well, except when it doesn't.

I hope like hell mine doesn't blow up in 70 miles or burn a ton of oil. I really don't want to regret my decision.

My previous motor was pushing 582 through a 4R70W & a 3500 stall with no lock up. This one was showing 550 at 5,500 RPM with the same set up before she blew.

 

[Deez-67]

My previous motor was pushing 582 through a 4R70W & a 3500 stall with no lock up. This one was showing 550 at 5,500 RPM with the same set up before she blew.

Less HP and it blew hu?

 

[Deez-67]

GT500 specs:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=168&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

5.0 4v:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=822&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

2011 GT500:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=831&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

4.6 3v:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=158&viewfile=SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

These specs are important for comparison purposes. Why? Because all of these motors hold quite a lot of power in stock form. The thing that always goes first is the rods. You never hear of a spun bearing unless someone put delo in the motor or something along that line of stupidity.

To me it means that Ford factory specs, machining, and parts are very good. It also means that the average person can use Ford specs with stronger components and be just fine with more power. An all out race motor would be different.

All too often people live in the past and don't even bother to think of why clearances are tighter, motors make more power, and they live longer than they ever have. It's because the machining is more precise, better oil is available, and manufacturers know more about internal combustion motors and the theory behind them than they used to. It keeps getting better.

I figure that if a supercharged 5.4 4v with a warranty has a bearing clearance of .0009-.0019" then those are good numbers for my motor. Likewise with the rest of the specs. The only exception is 2618 pistons which need extra clearance to account for metal expansion.

There are lots of theories on motor specs. Why not use the specs with a great track record?

Well put

 

[AutoXRacer]

Here is another question... What is the thickest oil I can run in the JDM 302E motor?

I am currently still running their speced 10W-30 VR1 oil.

Can I go to 10W-40 or even 20W-50?

Oh, I forgot to post my compression and leak-down numbers; posted it in my build thread. Standby. lol

Update: OK, here they are:

But not sure I want to deal with TMS anymore... The whole thing has me a little suspect on the work they did on my car.

Well, first, they tried to convince me my gear noise is normal, that 4.10s are noisy gears and that my car isn't normal (meaning its extremely modified).

OK, moving on...

Compression and Leak-down

So I requested the shop perform a compression and leak-down test.
Here are the results:
.............Compression - leak-down
Cylinder #1: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #2: 150 PSI - 9% leak-down
Cylinder #3: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #4: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #5: 155 PSI - 9% leak-down
Cylinder #6: 155 PSI - 8% leak-down
Cylinder #7: 155 PSI - 7% leak-down
Cylinder #8: NA (shop skipped it due to having to R&R the throttle body and they figured all the other cylinders were showing completely normal.)

So I just performed my own compression test and got completely different results.
Here is what I did. I warmed up the car to normal operating temp; 190 head temp/185 coolant. Removed all plugs and started with cylinder #1. I told my GF to crank the motor until I told her to stop. I let her crank the motor until I got the highest reading/until the reading settled; which was around 4 seconds of continuous cranking per cylinder.

Here are my readings:

Cylinder #1: 205 PSI
Cylinder #2: 210 PSI
Cylinder #3: 200 PSI
Cylinder #4: 215 PSI
Cylinder #5: 215 PSI
Cylinder #6: 200 PSI
Cylinder #7: 200 PSI
Cylinder #8: 215 PSI

So why are my results off the wall??? Why such a huge difference?

I tried to perform the leak-down, but I would have had to remove the radiator fan with the coolant and supercharger tanks along with the power steering reservoir.

Now here is the kicker, if the shop was so adamant to R&R a throttle body, do you think they R&R the radiator fan and associated parts to be able to insert a socket into the crank to rotated the motor? Just to clear it up, I have a 03-04 spider-crank that bolts into my crankshaft pulley. So you need a 14mm hex to insert to rotate the crankshaft. So, this extra work leads me to believe it may not have been done; where did those numbers come from? Any if they didn't perform it, why didn't they just say it. I would have been disappointed, but at least I would have respected their honesty.

Unless there is another way shops use to rotate the crank to find TDC and closed valves...

I hate to assume and accuse, but its been troubling since I tried to perform my own leak-down test.

What do you guys think of the numbers...?

I should also add, that my dipstick has a burnt oil on it; towards the middle of the stick. Charred black oil. I pulled the dipstick out while the motor was running and smoke was coming out. I think the dipstick tube is too close to the headers. But how else can it be routed. Its kind of stuck that way. When I put everything together, I even wrapped and shielded the dipstick tube with high temp sleeving. Its not helping. sigh
I'll post a pic of the dipstick later...

 

[skwerl]

I wouldn't run that thick of an oil and I'm in a lot hotter climate than you. Why do you want to run anything thicker than 5w-30? You're in Washington State for Christ's sake.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I wouldn't run that thick of an oil and I'm in a lot hotter climate than you. Why do you want to run anything thicker than 5w-30? You're in Washington State for Christ's sake.

Just thinking for ways of reducing oil consumption.
10W-30 is pretty thin...not as thin as 5W-20..but still thin.

I was just wondering.

I see that ROUSH speced 20W-50 in their built motors for the P-51.

 

[BruceH]

Just thinking for ways of reducing oil consumption.
10W-30 is pretty thin...not as thin as 5W-20..but still thin.

I was just wondering.

I see that ROUSH speced 20W-50 in their built motors for the P-51.

Oil serves a number of purposes in your motor. It acts as a lubricant, a means of physical separation by way of an oil wedge, a coolant, and a hydraulic fluid.

How thick can you go and maintain an oil wedge between your bearings? Once the wedge goes you are relying on film strength which is a place you don't want to be.

The wedge is going to separate the bearings and journals. It's also going to take heat away and act like a coolant. It also has to get through the oil galleys to all the bearings and to the top of the motor to lubricate the cam and valvetrain. Ford clearance specs for 3v cams are just about the same as main and rod bearing clearances. This means that oil flow is very important here too.

I would be willing to guess that Ford put quite a lot of engineering into the oil pump, galley sizes, bearing clearances, etc. in order to have oil get everywhere it needs to get and in the volume with the proper flow needed.

Quite often we are told that Ford speced 5w-20 for mpg over wear. The most mpg is going to be with whatever causes the least amount of friction and best lubrication. The least amount of friction will also give the least amount of wear.

I realize that I just opened a big can of worms by stating my thoughts on the matter. I don't claim to be any sort of expert on the subject but I'm absolutely certain that the Ford engineers are.

I wouldn't run 10w anything on a mod motor unless it was built super loose. The only reason we used to run 10w-xx was because it was all that was available and factory machining wasn't so good. We aren't running a 350 from 1976. Run 10w-xx in a mod motor with stock clearance and be prepared for a spun bearing. I'm not saying it will happen but the chances are much greater.

In the end it's your motor and your choice. Ford has been so successful with the mod motors that I can't see changing oil or clearances for a street motor. But that's me.