JDM 302E Engine Owners - Check In!!

[AutoXRacer]

So Bruce, you're not even recommending 10W-30...? Thats what I've been running for the past 8,000 miles.

So would a 5W-30 or 5W-40 be better? Now I have totally forgotten what XW-XX stands for... lol

 

[hamish]

Brenspeed spec'd their motors for 10w40
JDM spec'd theirs for 10w30
I currently run 15w40 and had previously used 20w50.
rod clearance = .00225
Mains = .0025
side = .018
and a gaping .0045ptw
This engine is pretty loose.
Micheal at L&M said there was no reason to build the clearances so large with these motors at the time and had said 5w30 should be the goal oil weight.
Different shop built this motor and it runs fine.
They put in 20w50 and after some research decided to go with the 15w40

If it ever blows I will break it open and we can all see if there is any issues using the heavier weight oil.

 

[hamish]

So Bruce, you're not even recommending 10W-30...? Thats what I've been running for the past 8,000 miles.

So would a 5W-30 or 5W-40 be better? Now I have totally forgotten what XW-XX stands for... lol

Its a viscosity measurement taken at low temp and 100*
low viscosity when cold, high when hot

 

[BruceH]

So Bruce, you're not even recommending 10W-30...? Thats what I've been running for the past 8,000 miles.

So would a 5W-30 or 5W-40 be better? Now I have totally forgotten what XW-XX stands for... lol

You have to make your own decisions on that. IMO all that 10w will do is cause bearing, valve train, and cam journal wear on start up.

With your motor I'd be running 5w-30. You really need to go with what your builder advises though, they should have enough experience with what they build to offer solid advice. I'm just a guy on the internet.

 

[RocketcarX]

Now Skwerl, remember not to break it in per JDM specs...
Initially crank it for 20-25 mins until fans turn on, then off, and shut her down.
Dump oil, fill it up with new filter and drive it like you stole it!!!

I was easy on mine per JDM's specs and you know the out come.

Even the local shop said new motors should not be babied or taken easy on.
I told them my motor had a lot of idling periods, due to tuning and heavy traffic. They said that's actually the worst you can do to a new motor.

I'll be following your build/experience.

Def agree. I still can't understand why any shop would recommend an "easy break in, lol. I can't think of one promod motor i've worked on that was "broken" in prior to running the tits off of it.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[Timmbo]

Since were discussing oil, I found it very interesting that Brenspeed told me to strictly use 10W-40 motor oil in my stroker. Even replaced my oil cap with the new 10W-40 oil cap.

 

[rayS197]

To piggy back what Bruce stated about listen to the engine builder, Ford told me to cycle back to 5W20 on their stroker.

 

[GB10]

I wouldn't run any thicker than 5w40 in your motor AutoXRacer. Your motor is looser in terms of bearing clearances. The lash adjusters can fail if you start using too thick of oil with higher rpm.

Also, the .030" oil rail gap is most likely not due to it being file fit to that size, but the increased piston to wall clearance used for the pistons. It really depends on which rings are used as to where the ring end gap starts before filing.

 

[AutoXRacer]

OK, next oil change I'll look for a 5W-XX...

Any comments on the compression numbers?

 

[BadPiggy]

Still having issues with that motor?
You've totally made up my mind about the JDM engine...ain't happening.

Now I gotta figure out what the hell I want all over again.

 

[Timmbo]

Still having issues with that motor?
You've totally made up my mind about the JDM engine...ain't happening.

Now I gotta figure out what the hell I want all over again.

B326 stroker FTW! Almost 1k miles and absolutely zero issues.

 

[zipperhead]

I had JDM build and install my 302E . I broke it on Vr1 and currently run Motorcraft 10w30 per there direction. I drive the car 3 hours to the track at 70 mph and it runs 11.4 /11.5 all day long maybe 5 times a year. Oh ya Jim Sr tuned this bitch
fyi I have maybe 10K on the new engine

 

[AutoXRacer]

I had JDM build and install my 302E . I broke it on Vr1 and currently run Motorcraft 10w30 per there direction. I drive the car 3 hours to the track at 70 mph and it runs 11.4 /11.5 all day long maybe 5 times a year. Oh ya Jim Sr tuned this bitch
fyi I have maybe 10K on the new engine

Did it ever consume oil? Who and how was it broken in?

Local customers get much better support/product; especially if you deal directly with Sr. But he is impossible to get a hold of.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

10w30 and 5w30 have the same viscosity at 80f...

 

[RocketcarX]

10w30 and 5w30 have the same viscosity at 80f...

Isn't the 10w twice as "thick" at the low temp oil is rated at though? Start up and warm up periods are something like 75% when all the bearing wear is going to take place, when the oil is in it's range of the lower temp viscosity scale.

 

[hamish]

That W rating is taken at -20*C or -25*C.
At normal ambient temps they are significantly closer.

 

[BruceH]

10w30 and 5w30 have the same viscosity at 80f...

So why not use the one that flows better when cold? Oil flow is where the protection, cooling, and parts separation come from.

I can remember the days when 10w-x was the lowest available. That's when most motors didn't go 100k and we had to warm them up to operating temp prior to using them or risk significant wear.

With modern motors and oils we can start and drive right away because the oil is flowing, even with the tight clearances modern machining is producing. Motors are also lasting well over 200k on a regular basis.

The history with motors and lubricants is that both keep getting better. The result has been longer life, more power, and more mpg.

In the end it's your motor and your decision. I will say that imo the chances of spinning a bearing will increase with the use of 10w-anything on a gasoline motor with modern clearances.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

So why not use the one that flows better when cold? Oil flow is where the protection, cooling, and parts separation come from.

I can remember the days when 10w-x was the lowest available. That's when most motors didn't go 100k and we had to warm them up to operating temp prior to using them or risk significant wear.

With modern motors and oils we can start and drive right away because the oil is flowing, even with the tight clearances modern machining is producing. Motors are also lasting well over 200k on a regular basis.

The history with motors and lubricants is that both keep getting better. The result has been longer life, more power, and more mpg.

In the end it's your motor and your decision. I will say that imo the chances of spinning a bearing will increase with the use of 10w-anything on a gasoline motor with modern clearances.

I do agree with you that modern machining is changing the oil lubrication guide. The Cold Cranking # you need depends on where you live.

I prefer 10w30 because since I live in a place where it doesn't dip below 70f 10w and 5w will flow the same during my "cold starts". You also gotta remember that you want to use the oil with the lowest discrepancy between the cold and hot viscosity. As a rule the bigger the difference the less sheer resistant the oil will be. You can increase the "viscosity" of the oil running higher pressures which will therefore increase the load capacity of the oil. Running too thin of an oil is also bad. You have to select the best of both for your application and for your temperature range.

If you do a search on oils for the modular 3v you will see some posts of scott w which was the systems/engine engineer for the 3v. It is an androdz reference but you can see on corner carvers where he puts his input of oil recommendation for the 3v. I personally will go with the recommendation of the dude that was part of the design team and disassembled hundreds of 3v's during the R&D process.

Motor oils are NOT getting better and they are infact protecting less the engines. This is due to the EPA. The EPA has controlled the amount of ZDDP that street engine oils can have. ZDDP is what really protects the engine. If the oil passes a certain limit on the zinc/phosphorus content then it will not be street legal. That's why I only use "racing" oils right now. You can see that they are only for "off road" use since the EPA will not allow them to be sold to be used on the streets.

 

[BruceH]

I prefer 10w30 because since I live in a place where it doesn't dip below 70f 10w and 5w will flow the same. You also gotta remember that you want to use the oil with the lowest discrepancy between the cold and hot viscosity. As a rule the bigger the difference the less sheer resistant the oil will be. If you do a search on oils for the modular 3v you will see some posts of scott w which was the systems/engine engineer for the 3v. It is an androdz reference but you can see on corner carvers where he puts his input of oil recommendation for the 3v. I personally will go with the recommendation of the dude that was part of the design team and disassembled hundreds of 3v's during the R&D process.

Last but not least motor oils are NOT getting better and they are infact protecting less the engines. Why is that? Easy because of the EPA. The EPA has controlled the amount of ZDDP engine oils can have. If the oil passes a certain limit on the zinc/phosphorus content then it will not be street legal. That's why I only use "racing" oils right now. You can see that they are only for "off road" use since the EPA will not allow them to be sold to be used on the street.

I'm aware of it and we have had this discussion too many times. IIRC SW was pretty much the only part of the team with that idea.

I have a lot of faith in what Ford produces. The longevity of modular motors is fantastic. Even with boost the stock motors hold a lot of horsepower. The clearances are tight and they get tighter as the motor warms up. I'm concerned with how well the oil will flow both at startup and when at operating temp to provide a physical barrier between parts, take away heat, and lubricate. Things like sheer and film strength are the last line of defense for a motor oil. As long as it's api certified I'm not too concerned about those numbers. This method of approaching what fluids to use has done well for me. The reduction of zdpp hasn't affected factory motors longevity. High levels will kill catalytic converters and I do run cats on all my vehicles.

Did you know that nascar uses 0w-2? The motors run hot and clearances tighten up significantly.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Yeap an oil discussion like disputing which beer is better, everyone has their favorite. Engine bearings are not the same. They vary a lot depending on the use that they are designed for. At 80f the 5w and 10w will flow the same, offer the same resistance to flow but the 10w will have greater film strength. Do you have any links regarding the recommendation of the other people on the design team? I would really love to read some more and see how they differ from SW. I haven't been able to find anything else and since he is the most "direct" source I have been able to find then i'll go with his recommendation.

I dont like to run cats on my cars, boost is not catalytic converter friendly. I have already lost an engine due to a plugged cat. The API certifications requirements are very low. Cold start engine wear will take thousands of miles to affect an engine, now an engine loosing viscosity, film strength and shearing during a track day or heavy driving will destroy an engine in a matter of minutes.

If I am not mistaken nascar engines go thru a rebuild after each race.