Not sure I like the blower

tjm73

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Driver mod. The car can only do what your right foot commands. Regardless of tire, suspension, etc... you control the throttle and that controls the power output. I get the sense you drive your car like the gas pedal is an on/off switch. I have friends like this. They break stuff and they crash or have close calls. Their cars are "wild".

It's not the car. It's the driver.
 

Bill220

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/\ this is your issue IMHO

get a DR on there and you'll be much better off.


When I added a Vortech to my 06 GT I had the stock tires on the car, car made about 430 whp at 10#, had 3.55 rear IIRC at the time, went to 4.10s later, when I took the car out for a test drive from the install shop, I immediately found out I needed a upgrade, went to a 255/45/18 UHP tire, also worthless, moved those to the front and added a 265/40/18 MT ET SR II to the rear and the car worked!!! It could still spin in 1st if I hammered it above 4000 rpm, otherwise very little traction issue.

Yeah I'm running 3.73's. I don't know what psi it's at, I think 8. The gauge is going in on Saturday if the car is back from the shop getting the front bumper resprayed.

I drove one boosted car prior to this one. It was a 2000 something ZR1. Scared the absolute fuck out of me, lol. Once I can afford it, I'll get proper rims and tires. I have a set of 255/45/18 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's in my basement (summer compound) that I can either sell or run for the summer. I wanted 18X10's anyway and they're on my wish list.

All the of the above suggestions and maybe just drive the car normally to get a feel for the way it feels and increase right foot power slowly..

I don't see how you are having these issues with a centri blower which makes power with rpm's; my experience is the advantage of the centri blower is the ability to control the power as it really does not come on until higher speeds/rpms; you are describing symptoms of a PD blower...

Stick or automatic and what gears

Don't get me wrong, upgraded suspension and better tires will help.

2009 Bullitt. 3.73 gears. Boost hits around 2,700rpm but then it's like WHAM!, banging off the rev limiter in first gear. It gives me the most trouble in 1st and 2nd. More so 1st. It hits the rev limiter so fucking fast I can't react. I know it's me. I can drive a manual car very well. Maybe not like a race car driver but I'm good with a clutch. Been driving one since I was 16 and I'm 54. But adding 150 (claimed) rwhp and not upgrading the tires and driving in cold weather with a heavy foot was just stupid on my part.


The other night, I was coming home from work. Very late, nobody on the road. I won't put others in danger for my own pleasure. I turned left onto the on ramp to the expressway, made sure I was headed straight and floored it. It's a perfect on ramp for quick runs. It kicked right, left, I lifted, shifted into 2nd, dropped the gas pedal about ¾ and the rear of the car kept going right and left so I lifted and tried to straighten it out. The next thing I knew I spun the car. Luckily nobody was around and the guardrail was 25ft away. I babied it home after I calmed down and it went to the body shop the next day for the bumper.


To be honest, I didn't think that the meager blower I bought would do what it does. It's not like the crazy shit you guys buy, LOL.


OP, it's just a learning curve. Every time you change a performance characteristic of a car, it requires the driver to pay attention and feel it out. Solid axle cars can be a bear to corner carve in. The difficulty increases with more power. Predictability comes with experimentation. You can gain more traction with better tires, but that doesn't help you overcome the unpredicatible nature of traction loss. Knowing what your car will do at a given speed and power level with little or no traction is important to someone who wants to hug corners. I would suggest low speed drifting in a safe environment (empty parking lot or actual drift track). Find out first where power overcomes traction, lateral G's breaking point, and where the car wants to go when it does break loose. I feel your pain regarding heavy right foot syndrom. Half throttle, maybe 2/3's is about my maximum for 1, 2, and most of 3rd gear on the street. More than that is just a smoke show. Even-so, I've learned to control it enough to keep the car straight and pedal through it, traction eventually catches up, it's important to keep it in the groove when it does hook back up. You don't need balls out WOT in most head 2 head or roll races. And I would certainly rather lose a race because of traction loss than put my ride in a ditch because I couldn't stand to lose to a STI built to the hilt. Win some, lose some. Wider tires will give you more contact patch and improve cornering, taller tires and DR's will improve straight-line traction, but ultimately you'll still need to learn the new performance characteristics of your car, with or without improved traction. The more power you have, the less occasion you'll find WOT has purpose.


I'm not much of a racer. I put the blower on because I was bored with the 280-290hp stock 3V power. I got a fucking education real quick. I really like the idea of feeling the car out. Once it warms up and I get my summer tires on, I'm going to do what you suggested here.


Thank you guys so much for all the advice and ideas.
 

Bill220

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Driver mod. The car can only do what your right foot commands. Regardless of tire, suspension, etc... you control the throttle and that controls the power output. I get the sense you drive your car like the gas pedal is an on/off switch. I have friends like this. They break stuff and they crash or have close calls. Their cars are "wild".

It's not the car. It's the driver.

You're right except for the on/off switch part. I'm just not used to to the power curve and should have had the presence of mind to realize that.
 

stkjock

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Yeah I'm running 3.73's. I don't know what psi it's at, I think 8. The gauge is going in on Saturday if the car is back from the shop getting the front bumper resprayed.

I drove one boosted car prior to this one. It was a 2000 something ZR1. Scared the absolute fuck out of me, lol. Once I can afford it, I'll get proper rims and tires. I have a set of 255/45/18 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's in my basement (summer compound) that I can either sell or run for the summer. I wanted 18X10's anyway and they're on my wish list.


IMHO - go with 265/40/18 MT ET SR IIs on the stock bullits, not ideal, but they work, I used them for 5 years on my vert. I think that would be a good stop gap until you get yourself new rims, FWIW, I had the same bullits on my 06 and sold the car with them, never used a different rim.
 

Wes06

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Yeah a local girl talked to me about supercharging her car and getting 600 hp, I suggested get used to 300hp before doubling it "I'm already used to it" then her story changed to 1k hp.
Says her uncle made her drive his 800hp mustang before she bought hers. Yea right....
I'm expecting if she ever does supercharge it she'll be in a ditch the next day.
 

01yellerCobra

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Years ago I put a D1 on my stock 01 Cobra. A couple days later getting on the freeway I needed to speed up so I could merge with traffic. I accelerated like I did when my car was NA. Well, I attempted to at least. After looking at oncoming traffic through my passenger side window I quickly exited the freeway and went and ordered a pair of drag radials.

Sticky tires will help a lot. As will realizing you have more power now. Eventually you'll get bored and want more. It's a cycle.
 

Sky Render

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First of all, your tires are crap. Drag radials are a good choice, or Bridgestone RE-71R of you don't want DRs.

Secondly, if you wanted your car to handle, you shouldn't have bolted a 200-pound heater onto the top of the engine. :roflmao:
 
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Greg Hazlett

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Cold weather creates a lot of issues; air can be warm but if the ground/road is still cold you can go off roading in a hurry.....right Jeremy :)?
 

07 Boss

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The other night, I was coming home from work. Very late, nobody on the road. I won't put others in danger for my own pleasure. I turned left onto the on ramp to the expressway, made sure I was headed straight and floored it. It's a perfect on ramp for quick runs. It kicked right, left, I lifted, shifted into 2nd, dropped the gas pedal about ¾ and the rear of the car kept going right and left so I lifted and tried to straighten it out. The next thing I knew I spun the car. Luckily nobody was around and the guardrail was 25ft away. I babied it home after I calmed down and it went to the body shop the next day for the bumper.

If you are sideways and all of a sudden lift you're always going to spin it around. When you lift it unweights the back tires bringing the ass end around quick. And don't stab the brakes, that's even worst. Modulate the throttle decreasing some of the power but you have to maintain the weight on the rear by still applying some throttle. Watch the drift guys, they control the angle of their cars through throttle input, not steering input.

I have a whipple and make full torque at just over 3K rpms, very rarely on the street can I just mash the pedal and go. Even on the freeway at slower speeds if I just floor it the car gets sideways. Roll the throttle on, don't just mash it to the floor. When I apply full throttle it takes about a 1/2 to 3/4 of a second for the pedal to reach the floor.
 

Macman45

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Probably already been said but nix the RS3-A's. I had them on a bone stock 3V and it would murder them in 1st or 2nd without the clutch. You need something close to cheater slicks, drag radials like the Nittos or even MTs
 

05stroker

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I agree with alot of the guys, but I will say this, by reading your post you are obviously in over your head on the power at the moment. Dont worry, go ahead snd put a set of drag radials on the car while you learn to drive it. Then after you are more comfortable with the power and have possibly made a few suspension mods go back to street tires. You just need to watch the drag radials in the rain.
 

TheKurgan

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Just go find a deserted parking lot and do alot of burnouts and drifting. You'll learn the car's capability pretty quick.
 

46addict

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Drag radials/summer tires aren't an end all solution either because they have a narrow temperature range. Meaning in sub-50 degree weather or wet roads you're going to have the same lack of traction, and the problems are going to be exaggerated with the extra power. All season tires like the Coopers you have now are designed to be more predictable in all weather conditions. I would wear these out while you get used to the car before switching to something else.

What 07Boss said about weight transfer/gas pedal modulation is true. When the back end steps out you don't want to move weight to the front by letting out of the gas. Human instinct is to use the brake in emergencies to regain control, so I understand this seems counterintuitive, so it's going to take some practice. What I'm saying is it helps to be comfortable with the sensation of oversteer so you'll know what to do when it happens. In the meantime dial down the boost if you have to. Because if you drive through standing water with drag radials you will have the same problem.

Another thing I want to bring up is making sure your throttle opening is linear with the gas pedal. I've read some tunes have the TB blade fully open at 80% pedal input or something like that. If that's the case the pedal will act more like an on/off switch.
 
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eighty6gt

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Below 11C I have had some completely haywire moments on my hankooks. Also the car feels like it makes an extra 100 hp.
 

46addict

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I'm sure engines make more power in the cold due to the more favorable DA. But at the same time tires get harder so things get dicey.
 

Norm Peterson

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Another thing I want to bring up is making sure your throttle opening is linear with the gas pedal. I've read some tunes have the TB blade fully open at 80% pedal input or something like that. If that's the case the pedal will act more like an on/off switch.
I'd take it one step further than that, given that Bill has specifically mentioned wanting this car to corner - sounds like road course time might be in its future.

Rather than linear, I think an intentionally slowed-down initial throttle response rate where the 'slack' gets picked back up much closer to WOT is what's really needed in this situation. A 30% pedal motion creating 10% - 15% throttle movement kind of thing instead of 30% = 30%. This is something I did (mechanically) over a dozen years ago for autocross (an overly large throttle body behaves very much like too-aggressive tip-in), and as I happened to read last night is something that was suggested to Chevy for the 2017 ZL1 by none other than Randy Pobst (Motor Trend, April 2017, page 65).


Norm
 
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Bill220

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Yeah a local girl talked to me about supercharging her car and getting 600 hp, I suggested get used to 300hp before doubling it "I'm already used to it" then her story changed to 1k hp.
Says her uncle made her drive his 800hp mustang before she bought hers. Yea right....
I'm expecting if she ever does supercharge it she'll be in a ditch the next day.


I can't even imagine having that much power. Not sure what that ZR1 had but it scared the living hell out of me. The owner knew how to drive it and took me on some old, twisty back roads in WV. It was a blast. I drove it for 5 minutes and handed him the keys, LOL.




Years ago I put a D1 on my stock 01 Cobra. A couple days later getting on the freeway I needed to speed up so I could merge with traffic. I accelerated like I did when my car was NA. Well, I attempted to at least. After looking at oncoming traffic through my passenger side window I quickly exited the freeway and went and ordered a pair of drag radials.

Sticky tires will help a lot. As will realizing you have more power now. Eventually you'll get bored and want more. It's a cycle.


Yeah I hear that. For now, what I have will be more than enough for me. My mod account is empty and other than tires, I'm done buying shit for this car for the summer, lol.


First of all, your tires are crap. Drag radials are a good choice, or Bridgestone RE-71R of you don't want DRs.

Secondly, if you wanted your car to handle, you shouldn't have bolted a 200-pound heater onto the top of the engine. :roflmao:


Yeah I got the point on the tires being crap. I've been on this site for years and have read about what all you guys (and gals) do to your cars and the power numbers I would see made me think that adding a small blower (Novi SL1200) was no big deal. Lesson learned.


It weighs maybe 80lbs (no intercooler) and can still be made to handle, according to these guys. I have no interest in drag racing or auto cross. I just wanted to build a quick street car that handled well.


I agree with alot of the guys, but I will say this, by reading your post you are obviously in over your head on the power at the moment. Dont worry, go ahead snd put a set of drag radials on the car while you learn to drive it. Then after you are more comfortable with the power and have possibly made a few suspension mods go back to street tires. You just need to watch the drag radials in the rain.


I'll have to do some research on finding ones I can corner with. Thank you.




If you are sideways and all of a sudden lift you're always going to spin it around. When you lift it unweights the back tires bringing the ass end around quick. And don't stab the brakes, that's even worst. Modulate the throttle decreasing some of the power but you have to maintain the weight on the rear by still applying some throttle. Watch the drift guys, they control the angle of their cars through throttle input, not steering input.

I have a whipple and make full torque at just over 3K rpms, very rarely on the street can I just mash the pedal and go. Even on the freeway at slower speeds if I just floor it the car gets sideways. Roll the throttle on, don't just mash it to the floor. When I apply full throttle it takes about a 1/2 to 3/4 of a second for the pedal to reach the floor.


I lifted after it started going sideways back and forth and it just kept doing it until the car stopped. No brakes. I was powerless to do anything but wait and see where I ended up, lol.




Probably already been said but nix the RS3-A's. I had them on a bone stock 3V and it would murder them in 1st or 2nd without the clutch. You need something close to cheater slicks, drag radials like the Nittos or even MTs


Are they good for cornering? The tires you mentioned? Yeah, the Coopers are going on Craigs List, LOL.


Just go find a deserted parking lot and do alot of burnouts and drifting. You'll learn the car's capability pretty quick.


That's the plan once it warms up here. It's 22 degrees now but really sunny and the roads are good so I'm gonna take it to work. I haven't experienced my new Aeroforce gauge yet and want to check it out. My kid put it in yesterday.


I'd take it one step further than that, given that Bill has specifically mentioned wanting this car to corner - sounds like road course time might be in its future.

Rather than linear, I think an intentionally slowed-down initial throttle response rate where the 'slack' gets picked back up much closer to WOT is what's really needed in this situation. A 30% pedal motion creating 10% - 15% throttle movement kind of thing instead of 30% = 30%. This is something I did (mechanically) over a dozen years ago for autocross (an overly large throttle body behaves very much like too-aggressive tip-in), and as I happened to read last night is something that was suggested to Chevy for the 2017 ZL1 by none other than Randy Pobst (Motor Trend, April 2017, page 65).


Not so much road course, Norm. Right now I just want to learn to drive the damn thing safely and go around corners at reasonable speeds. I like back road driving. Nothing crazy, just spirited back road driving on roads I know. If I continue to have problems, I'll have Brenspeed tweak the tune for me.


My kid has no problem driving it.
 

skwerl

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Bill, check out Tire Rack for Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. I just put a set on my car and they are amazing! If I had bought these 3 years ago I most likely wouldn't have totaled my Bullitt. Michelin is replacing these with an upgraded version so you can find reduced prices on remaining inventory.

Second option would be the Continental Extreme Contact DW. Same deal, reduced prices on remaining limited inventory.
 

tigerhonaker

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Hey Bill,

If you live where it's COLD a lot of the year with lots of Rain ???

Something you might want to look into are the tires I changed to from the Mickey Thompson (Street Comps) to the Newest Continental DWS06 all season tires.

They have "Awesome" reviews buddy and I can tell you they are just fine under mine and work very nicely in Cold-Weather-Conditions.

Many (Summer Performance Tires) state they are not to be driven in Cold Weather Conditions, period.
The sidewalls per the Manufacturers will possibly CRACK !!!

Plus those tires are not worth a Crap in Cold Weather and I don't mean Freezing Weather just simply below 50 Degrees and they are like driving on ice.

Good-Luck with your choice,
Terry
 

saleen07gt

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As I see it, you either have to get used to the power or get rid of the blower and we all know that getting rid of the blower is not likely. LoL
 
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