Opinions: E85 Fuel system setup.

Towelly

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Cliff notes at the bottom.

Hello - I would like your expert opinions on the following setup. I am trying to put together a list of what I am going to need to meet my goals using E85 and I would rather not buy parts twice if possible. The "Endgame" plan is to be pushing a max of about 550RWHP on E85 Via turbo boost on a built bottom end. But, I am starting with my stock bottom end and around 450RWHP as the goal. So I am trying to calculate the fuel injector size close enough to meet both my requirements if possible. Should the following setup be OK at 450RWHP on E85 and still provide me with enough fuel for 550RWHP on E85?

Stock Rails
Stock Lines (May just bite the bullet here and go bigger)
New (stock) Fuel filter (If I go with bigger lines I'll get a billet filter)
2 x Walbro GSS342 on stock hat (W/ FPDM "Wiring Mod")
Ford Racing or Siemens 80lb/hr injectors

The boost will be provided by a as yet underdetermined turbo kit with a PT6262 Precision turbo. The reason I picked a relatively small turbo is because this car is a street car first and a race car second. So I would like as much response as I can get without "maxxing" the turbo out when I reach for my future goals. I think this turbo with a billet wheel will give me what I am looking for and still be "in the meat" of the compressor map.

So far I've done a good bit of homework and the most accurate number I can come up with, given a BSFC of .5 and that E85 generally requires about 40% more fuel, is that 60's are going to be maxed out at 460 crank HP at stock rail pressure. So, this means to give myself a 15% margin on the injectors I'm going to need at least 80lb/hr injectors. I would rather keep injector duty cycle at or under 85%. Will I be able to crank rail pressure enough, given that I’m using twin GSS342's, to support 550RWHP or am I going to be stuck buying another set of injectors when its "go time"?

(Calculator I used: http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php I also used Cokry Bell's "Maximum Boost" to find the original calculations I was using, but the online calculator was much more simple.)


Cliffs: Will the small parts list after the first paragraph provide me with enough E85 to make 450RWHP on the stock bottom end and then 550RWHP on a built bottom end in the not to distant future?

Thanks!

Jake
 

KrisR

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I have 80lb injex and GT500 pumps/dual FPDM setup with no BAP (I did upgrade the power feed line) and my fuel pump duty cycle at around 575rwhp (16-17psi boost) is basically 90-95%, so that's all the boost I can run. This sustains ~12.0:1 air/fuel on my wideband. I have purchased two Aeromotive 340 pumps to replace the GT500 235lph pumps but I haven't installed them yet.

I would say you will have plenty for your 550rwhp goals.
 

Towelly

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I have 80lb injex and GT500 pumps/dual FPDM setup with no BAP (I did upgrade the power feed line) and my fuel pump duty cycle at around 575rwhp (16-17psi boost) is basically 90-95%, so that's all the boost I can run. This sustains ~12.0:1 air/fuel on my wideband. I have purchased two Aeromotive 340 pumps to replace the GT500 235lph pumps but I haven't installed them yet.

I would say you will have plenty for your 550rwhp goals.


Is this on E85 or pump gas?
 

BruceH

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I ran 80's with GT500 fuel pumps no bap and maxed at 575rwhp fuel wise. Upgraded the power wire to an 8 gauge and was able to reach 599rwhp. Keep in mind those are corrected numbers, actual numbers were around 620 IIRC.

All of this was with a Whipple, 9.4 cr, comp 127300 cams, stock heads, stock fuel lines and rails. The E85 tested at 80% ethanol.
 

Towelly

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Awesome. Good to know. So, given that the GSS342's flow a bit more, I should have a bit of room to spare... What was maxed out at 575? Injectors or pumps?
 

BruceH

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Awesome. Good to know. So, given that the GSS342's flow a bit more, I should have a bit of room to spare... What was maxed out at 575? Injectors or pumps?

For me it was pumps as evidenced by the additional headroom an 8 gauge wire made. It was still running out at the end as you can see here.

4-2-2011E85-18VCT.jpg
 

KrisR

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No worries! Much appreciated.

Cool.

I'm actually really looking forward to getting the bigger pumps in. It made 638rwhp/703rwtq at 20psi on 100 unleaded Turbo Blue fuel, so I would imagine it will make a little more on corn.
 

KrisR

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For me it was pumps as evidenced by the additional headroom an 8 gauge wire made. It was still running out at the end as you can see here.

4-2-2011E85-18VCT.jpg

Did you every datalog your fuel pump duty cycle? I'd like to know for sure if you're out of pumps or lines, just for my curiousity.
 

Towelly

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Hrmm... For some reason I thought I remember reading somewhere that either the GSS342 or some similar Walbro 255 worked as returnless on our cars? I would rather not have to pay $600+ for GT 500 pumps or ~$200 each for Ford GT pumps? What are my alternatives?
 

JoshK

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I would think that a GT500 kit with a dual BAP would be good for those numbers. From what the others have given as their personnal experience confirms this. Your power goals are very similar to mine, that is why I went with the GT500 kit and can just add a dual BAP later if I need it.
 

Towelly

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I would think that a GT500 kit with a dual BAP would be good for those numbers. From what the others have given as their personnal experience confirms this. Your power goals are very similar to mine, that is why I went with the GT500 kit and can just add a dual BAP later if I need it.

My problem with the GT500 setup is cost, not ability. I'm trying to keep my build cost down as much as possible. I won't skimp where it is needed, but if I can save over 50% on something and still get good performance, I'm going to do it. Lemme see if I can find the thread I was talking about.

P.S. - Isn't Lightblade running two Walbro 255's in a return-less configuration? Do I just bite the bullet?
 
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GB10

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He runs GT supercar pumps like I do. I'm converting my car to E85 right now and using the Fore triple hat, but I will be removing my other dual GT supercar pump setup and fpdm if your interested.

It is two GT pumps on the stock hat with gates submersible hose from each pump to a stainless y and then to the pprv. You would have to do a little wiring, but it has the extra fpdm and pigtail with connector for the other fpdm. I also installed feed through studs on the hat for wire terminal studs, so you can run 12ga wire to each pump all the way to the pump rather than running through the stock connector.

I'd sell it for $375 shipped for the hat, FPDM, and pigtail connector for extra FPDM. PM me if you want anymore info.
 

Towelly

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He runs GT supercar pumps like I do. I'm converting my car to E85 right now and using the Fore triple hat, but I will be removing my other dual GT supercar pump setup and fpdm if your interested.

It is two GT pumps on the stock hat with gates submersible hose from each pump to a stainless y and then to the pprv. You would have to do a little wiring, but it has the extra fpdm and pigtail with connector for the other fpdm. I also installed feed through studs on the hat for wire terminal studs, so you can run 12ga wire to each pump all the way to the pump rather than running through the stock connector.

I'd sell it for $375 shipped for the hat, FPDM, and pigtail connector for extra FPDM. PM me if you want anymore info.


I'm interested. You have a PM. May be interested in purchasing it as soon as tomorrow.

Thanks,

Jake
 

GB10

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I pm'd you back. If you do want it and need it asap I can figure something out to cover the gas tank hole. I forgot to mention in the pm that I will be removing the fuel level sender since I need it for my Fore hat and the 2010 is different from yours anyways. You will just need to install yours on the hat.
 

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