Parts List Review

[Jucostud]

I've absorbed all the knowledge I possibly could from Vorshlag via Terry Fair and we came up with a parts list I'm going to order this weekend. I'm not going to talk price, because you can't put a price tag on time and knowledge, and besides the fact I think the pricing is "Fair" lol. This is the start to my modding list, not the end. With all that in mind, would you guys add or subtract anything to my first purchase to the car? Here's the list...

MCS TT1 Coilovers with 550/250 hypercoil springs
Whiteline Watts Link
Whiteline LCA's
Whiteline Relo Brackets
Whiteline R. Swaybar
Whiteline F. Swaybar
Carbotech F/R Pads
Motul Brake fluid
SS Brake Lines

I already have wheels and tires...

 

[Roadracer350]

You will love the watts! Don't forget;
Whiteline ball joints
Whiteline FCA bushing kit
Rear UCA (UPR, BMR)

 

[NoTicket]

I've absorbed all the knowledge I possibly could from Vorshlag via Terry Fair and we came up with a parts list I'm going to order this weekend. I'm not going to talk price, because you can't put a price tag on time and knowledge, and besides the fact I think the pricing is "Fair" lol. This is the start to my modding list, not the end. With all that in mind, would you guys add or subtract anything to my first purchase to the car? Here's the list...

MCS TT1 Coilovers with 550/250 hypercoil springs
Whiteline Watts Link
Whiteline LCA's
Whiteline Relo Brackets
Whiteline R. Swaybar
Whiteline F. Swaybar
Carbotech F/R Pads
Motul Brake fluid
SS Brake Lines

I already have wheels and tires...

I'm going to assume you posted this because you want actual feedback and not just a pat on the back and reassurance.

MCS TT1 Coilovers with 550/250 hypercoil springs

Great! These are what I'm going to get eventually as well when the car becomes more purely track focused.

Whiteline Watts Link

Been there, broke that. I would strongly advise you to look at the Cortex Watts link as it is a more robust design (pivots all in double sheer). The requisite YMMV (and ducking RR350's shoe) as plenty have run it without the propeller breaking, but mine did.

Whiteline LCA's

They are good. If you want the best for road racing I would look at the MaximumMotorsports, UMI, BMR, etc. LCAs with spherical bearings or rod ends.

Whiteline Relo Brackets

Since you are lowering over 2" to support the MCS coils this is a reasonable choice as you only need the bottom hole anyway to get those LCA angles correct.

Whiteline R. Swaybar

Opinions vary wildly on this one... I have no opinion about it.

Whiteline F. Swaybar

I would personally stick with a hollow adjustable front bar. The Strano front with adjustable end links would be my choice but I don't think this is a bad choice.

Carbotech F/R Pads

Carbotechs are good pads. You will probably love them. If you want a more "endurance" style pad that will last more than 3-4 track days I would look at something like the Raybestos ST-43.

I think you'll be happy with them.

Motul Brake fluid
SS Brake Lines

Great move on both the last two items.

Despite any commentary your build list is going to be a fast one and you will probably love it.

But seriously... Cortex Watts link ;-)

 

[Jucostud]

Thanks for the feedback! I will Converse

 

[zeroescape]

The whiteline ball joint kit for 05 to 10' is more of a bumpsteer kit. The ball joint isnt any taller for roll center adjustment. I wouldnt change the ball joint unless its worn/broken. Thats a decent amount of labor for minimal to near zero effect.

 

[NoTicket]

Not only that but it will not work with Jucostuds 5.0 Mustang... Put off doing ball joints until you really feel it is necessary.

 

[zeroescape]

Haha yeah. I should have noticed the first pic, i saw the sig picture and thought ...

 

[Roadracer350]

Seriously... Haven't we been thru this already. Your unit had a BAD WELD. They fixed it and you didn't have any more problems but you STILL bash them every chance you get. Terry beats the shit out of his every chance he gets and I have beat the shit out of mine with NO problems. How much track time did you have on your watts? Do you have the Cortex unit? If so how much track time do you have on it? What is the diffrence in feel and handling that YOU can feel... From what I remember you only had about 800 miles on the unit and once it was fixed you pulled it off and sold it without even giving it a chance... Seriously bro this is getting old..

 

[Roadracer350]

The whiteline ball joint kit for 05 to 10' is more of a bumpsteer kit. The ball joint isnt any taller for roll center adjustment. I wouldnt change the ball joint unless its worn/broken. Thats a decent amount of labor for minimal to near zero effect.

Actually their not that hard to change an the Whiteline ball joint (bump steer) kit has 3 settings on it to adj the arms back flat when you lower it. The tie rod ends that come in the kit are adjustable also. I have my ball joints set on #3 and the tie rods set at 50mm

 

[NoTicket]

Seriously... Haven't we been thru this already. Your unit had a BAD WELD. They fixed it and you didn't have any more problems but you STILL bash them every chance you get. Terry beats the shit out of his every chance he gets and I have beat the shit out of mine with NO problems. How much track time did you have on your watts? Do you have the Cortex unit? If so how much track time do you have on it? What is the diffrence in feel and handling that YOU can feel... From what I remember you only had about 800 miles on the unit and once it was fixed you pulled it off and sold it without even giving it a chance... Seriously bro this is getting old..

Get your panties out of a wad and accept that I will always caution against getting it. Opinions, ass holes, yada yada.

I am not the only person that had the same exact problem.

Two people popped up in the thread that had the exact same issue. Sam Strano mentioned that he knew someone that had the issue. And then finally in the Cortex thread Jason from Vorshlag (modernbeat) said that they had a customer have the same issue shortly after I installed I posted.

modernbeat also said that he has been in contact with Whiteline who claims they are REDESIGNING IT. So CLEARLY there is an issue with the design or why would they be doing it.

To answer all of your questions:

I had one track day on the Whiteline unit before it broke during normal street driving. Your memory is accurate about how long I had it on and when I sold it.

I do not own the Cortex unit but it is based on a proven design (Griggs) and I have yet to hear of any breakage issues with them. There are several Spec S197 race cars here in San Jose that run them and they all function perfectly fine after running races day after day.

The Cortex offers more adjustability as well. Both (at the same roll center) will offer the same handling characteristics (unless you choose rod ends for the Cortex).

I don't frankly care what alternative you choose, but I would avoid the Whiteline unit until they fix their design.

Quit trying to shout me down with your Whiteline fanboy reactions. I don't have a grudge against Whiteline. I am offering an opinion based on experience and facts. You can keep yelling "I HAVE ONE AND IT ISN'T BROKEN" but that doesn't actually change anything.

 

[Roadracer350]

As of this moment their is nothing wrong with their design. Did yours have a problem with the weld? Yes. We have problems here everyday with welds but we are lucky enought to catch them. Most of the problems with the unit has been install errors by the end user due to wrong torque figures. Could it be made better? Yes but so could EVERY product on the market. Am I a fan of Whiteline? Yes I am or I would not be using their products. I am also a fan of UPR, BC, BMR, Cortex etc. what irritates me is the fact that people will buy these products have ONE problem and instantly says everything they make is either bad or "they wouldn't recommend it". Every product has problems. I hate to bring it up again but BMR had some problems with their control arms. They redesigned it and no problems since. Are their people running their arms that has had no problems what so ever? Yes. So what is the diffrence between BMR and Whiteline? Nothing. Both companies recognized the problems people were saying and have taken action to make the product better. You say their are people that run the Cortex or Griggs unit in Cali race after race with no problems well so does Whiteline. Do you relize that Whiteline has been making suspension parts for Australian V8 Supercars, top level drift cars and also Terry beats the SHIT out of his unit just about EVERY weekend WITH NO ISSUES.. So that point is mute. As a matter of fact look at The Mustang Shop NASCAR powered S197. What's he running.. Whiteline Watts and pushing what.. 900hp..

 

[NoTicket]

No, most of the problems have not been install problems, they have been the exact same problem that I had.

And no, the point is not moot because there are a few examples of them not breaking.

When BMR had problems with their A-arms failing, before they redesigned them, would you still have recommended people install them? Again, many people were running them and not having them break. But they had a structural flaw (cutting BMR out of the metal) that resulted in a small number of people having their cars wrecked. It was not happening to EVERY A-arm. Just some. But it was a design flaw that caused it, and they went back to the drawing board.

I do not shit on Whiteline, I do not think there is ANY difference between BMR and Whiteline. But I would never recommend somebody go buy BMRs old A-arms just like I would not recommend people buy the watts link. Whiteline is perfectly fine. Your fanboy instincts keep telling you I am bashing the company but I am just cautioning against a single part which THEY ARE CURRENTLY REDESIGNING TO GET RID OF EXISTING DESIGN FLAWS.

Do you think people should go buy the old UCA they made? Would you have recommended they buy it once people were reporting the failures? Their current UCA is perfectly good, but their previous one was flawed. Once again, not all of them failed, but some did, and it was caused by not being engineered to a high enough standard.

I am not arguing that Whiteline is a shit company or that you should get rid of your unit because its spontaneously going to explode. Chances are if you've made it through a few track days then its probably good to go. But I don't see why you would recommend people buy the current unit when there are other diff mounted units with more adjustability that have everything in double sheer and are withing spitting distance on price.

 

[modernbeat]

...I am not arguing that Whiteline is a shit company or that you should get rid of your unit because its spontaneously going to explode. Chances are if you've made it through a few track days then its probably good to go. But I don't see why you would recommend people buy the current unit when there are other diff mounted units with more adjustability that have everything in double sheer and are withing spitting distance on price.

Actually, I believe the unit you are referring to has one point in double shear, not all points. And most other units use spherical ends, not bushings. The spherical ends are not ideal for a dual purpose car. And we have the new Whiteline propeller and are testing it. The design is similar, but there are additional welds and they are not grinding the weld on the back for clearance to the cover.

So I still recommend many people buy the Whiteline parts because they are suitable for dual-duty use and they have made improvements to make them more durable. They were early to the market compared to others that learned how to make an improved part at Whiteline's cost. Now Whiteline has come out with their own improvements.

 

[BMR Tech]

I think it's a pretty solid starting point.

I do recommend a set of LCA Brackets with multiple mounting positions. I would never, ever recommend someone "guessing" at their LCA and UCA angles - with no room for adjustment.

When you lower the car, you are also lowering the front mounting point on the UCA. I can completely understand why some people don't want to mess around with an aftermarket UCA - BUT, I highly recommend our/BMR UCA Mount. It is plug and play on your car, fits very well with the OEM UCA.....and has a position SPECIFICALLY for a lowered car, that utilizes LCA Brackets. (Upper Position)

I also agree with using a hollow adjustable bar up front, but that WL piece will work fine. I am just a fan of not adding weight, if it's not needed. The rear bar has many "pros" - but the front, I think, personally, you would be better off with a hollow 35-38mm version with multiple adjustment points.

Keep us updated!

 

[Roadracer350]

On the failure you had and the couple of other ones like yours it was a bad weld. Now let's look at that for a second. As a fabricater and welder I can honestly tell you that on Tg, Mig, flux and Stick that you can have a GREAT looking weld but have perosity inside that you won't find unless you X-ray the part. Now with that being said who welded it? Was it robot or human? What gas were they using? How close was the bottle to being empty? We're their any contamination on or in the metal? We don't know. They are redesigning it to make it better. The same thing every mfg does with their part. We just redesigned some of our parts we make in house. Why? To make them better. Dodo they need it? No but we want to be better than the other guy. I like all the Whiteline components except the UCA. It's not about the durability but the eccentric adjustment. It's a PITA. I do like the Cortex and Griggs units BUT they are geared towards the full bore race car end of the sprectrum and the Whiteline unit is geared more to the street/track day guy that still drives it to work. Now with that being said you have the TMS NASCAR S197 that is going to do AIX this year let's see what happens.

 

[Roadracer350]

Actually, I believe the unit you are referring to has one point in double shear, not all points. And most other units use spherical ends, not bushings. The spherical ends are not ideal for a dual purpose car. And we have the new Whiteline propeller and are testing it. The design is similar, but there are additional welds and they are not grinding the weld on the back for clearance to the cover.

So I still recommend many people buy the Whiteline parts because they are suitable for dual-duty use and they have made improvements to make them more durable. They were early to the market compared to others that learned how to make an improved part at Whiteline's cost. Now Whiteline has come out with their own improvements.

Exactly! Agree 1 million percent!

 

[NoTicket]

Actually, I believe the unit you are referring to has one point in double shear, not all points. And most other units use spherical ends, not bushings. The spherical ends are not ideal for a dual purpose car. And we have the new Whiteline propeller and are testing it. The design is similar, but there are additional welds and they are not grinding the weld on the back for clearance to the cover.

So I still recommend many people buy the Whiteline parts because they are suitable for dual-duty use and they have made improvements to make them more durable. They were early to the market compared to others that learned how to make an improved part at Whiteline's cost. Now Whiteline has come out with their own improvements.

Yes I did misspeak. The outer pivot points on the propeller are attached by rod ends and large bolts.

On the second point, there is a street version of the cortex unit offered that uses bushings on the chassis side, and there is almost no nvh increase.

Furthermore you guys are always selling 2"+ required drop coilovers and you think axle side rod ends on these units are going to have too much NVH???

 

[NoTicket]

On the failure you had and the couple of other ones like yours it was a bad weld. Now let's look at that for a second. As a fabricater and welder I can honestly tell you that on Tg, Mig, flux and Stick that you can have a GREAT looking weld but have perosity inside that you won't find unless you X-ray the part. Now with that being said who welded it? Was it robot or human? What gas were they using? How close was the bottle to being empty? We're their any contamination on or in the metal? We don't know. They are redesigning it to make it better. The same thing every mfg does with their part. We just redesigned some of our parts we make in house. Why? To make them better. Dodo they need it? No but we want to be better than the other guy. I like all the Whiteline components except the UCA. It's not about the durability but the eccentric adjustment. It's a PITA. I do like the Cortex and Griggs units BUT they are geared towards the full bore race car end of the sprectrum and the Whiteline unit is geared more to the street/track day guy that still drives it to work. Now with that being said you have the TMS NASCAR S197 that is going to do AIX this year let's see what happens.

"I have purchased the Whiteline Watts Link and now I need everyone else to so that I feel that I made the right choice!"

 

[Roadracer350]

"I have purchased the Whiteline Watts Link and now I need everyone else to so that I feel that I made the right choice!"

I dont think so skippy. Now you are turning into another GMITCH. Once you see you actually cant have a rationsl disscusion you try and turn it around. You have your opinion and I have mine. You are the typical "Mustang" owner...

 

[NoTicket]

I dont think so skippy. Now you are turning into another GMITCH. Once you see you actually cant have a rationsl disscusion you try and turn it around. You have your opinion and I have mine. You are the typical "Mustang" owner...

I am just tired of you howling at me every time I voice my opinion. gmitch is far from the average mustang owner. You, however, turn your nose up at silly evidence like multiple failures that we actually know of, and the fact that Whiteline is redesigning the part, and keep singing its praises to attempt to get more people to purchase the part.

There is no point in us debating the point any more. You will keep talking about welding methods, and I will keep talking about how it has more reported failures than any other Watts Link that we know of.

And I am risk averse. When I am on the track going over 100mph around a corner that has a wall on either side I want to be confident that parts on my car are going to fall apart.