PSI plus Watts?

[StreamlineGT]

I know plenty of you have gone to Watts link rear axle control, but what about Air suspension? I am looking for some input as to whether the Watts link limits suspension travel, so that when the car is aired out, it will not rest on the cut bump stops. By looking at some setup illustrations, I say it might.

I guess my question is this, who here has it, and does it work?

:FLAME SUIT - ACTIVATE!:

My concern is that using the panhard setup will cause the rear end to be really off center when aired out. It will limit my wheel clearances on the left side, unless I adjust it to the right during normal driving.

 

[908ssp]

I built my own Watts link. I wanted to make sure it was going to work ok so I disconnected the shocks and pulled the springs. Then suspending the car by the frame I lifted the rear axle up and down with the jack. I had no issues reaching the bumps stops and could easily have gone farther than the travel in both directions. I can't say about other Watts links but I don't think this is an issue with any of them. Unfortunately most of them aren't designed very well and add significant weight. Check out Griggs, Saleen or Techco watts links those are the good ones.

 

[jmn444]

Fays isn't good? I'm considering theirs for my 68 right now, but I also haven't come across others that make them for that year.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I can't say about other Watts links but I don't think this is an issue with any of them. Unfortunately most of them aren't designed very well and add significant weight. Check out Griggs, Saleen or Techco watts links those are the good ones.

Techco is out of business, for about 2 years. The original Saleen watts link was prone to breakage because of a design that put a bolt in single shear. I don't know if they have redesigned it. Is Saleen even in business?

The best option is Fays2 in my opinion. The price is reasonable and I haven't come across any complaints, except for noise.

 

[Towelly]

Steeda makes a quality, more adjustable, piece. But it's really expensive. I think I agree with Vapour. If I were to buy a Watt's link I think it'd be a Fays2 Watt's.

 

[jmn444]

is the weight that excessive on the fays? I'm not building an all out track car, but do plan to use it more on the track than the street, so weight is a consideration. unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of good options for my application.

 

[SD07GT]

Techco is out of business, for about 2 years. The original Saleen watts link was prone to breakage because of a design that put a bolt in single shear. I don't know if they have redesigned it. Is Saleen even in business?

The best option is Fays2 in my opinion. The price is reasonable and I haven't come across any complaints, except for noise.

I used the Fays at Infenion , willow springs and califonia speedway and it sucks ! Griggs is hands down the best period !

I will tell you why the Fays is a crap unit in my opinion ...now if your racing in between cones (lol) on the weekend it will work fine but hitting anything over 140 in in sweepers or long corners you are going to have problems with the axle clamps sliding around or moving . You can tighten the crap out of it at torque specs or even higher and it will still move on you . I almost went into the wall in turn three at california speedway last year at 170+ because the clamp slipped.

Some guys are welding the axle clamps to the axle tubes and that will fix the problem 100% but sense you have to really get a good weld to penetrate the tubes ..you can really be weakening the tubes causing a mass failure at high speeds.

I havnt seen enough of the Steeda units out there to give a fair evaluation of it .

 

[jmn444]

On the vintage fays units, the driver side is not a stand alone clamp, but rather a modified shock mount that uses the U-bolts that holds the axle to the leafs as the clamp... do you think I'd have the same issue with only one side using the axle tube clamp?

I seriously doubt I'll ever cross 140 in this car even if it could stay planted going that fast.

Thanks for the info, and sorry for semi hijacking the thread to the OP!

 

[RedMosesSC]

Techco is out of business, for about 2 years. The original Saleen watts link was prone to breakage because of a design that put a bolt in single shear. I don't know if they have redesigned it. Is Saleen even in business?
.

I snapped one of my Saleen Watts link arms, most likely to the shitty NYC roads, it was a Gen 2 with the revised Longer arms. Getting a replacement from Saleen took weeks! That said, it really makes the rear of the car more confident in coming out of turns.

Seems like a Watts will give you the articulation needed for air suspension. By design the Watts centers the rear wheels but im not sure if it will be completely centered when sitting as low as it can go, its will def work better than a panhard for your application.

 

[StreamlineGT]

I don't track my car, hell, only drive it once every two weeks if I'm lucky. Weight is not really an issue for me, and neither is price. I'd rather not get something due to price, than buy a lower priced, lesser quality alternative. My biggest concern is binding of the center pivot mechanism when I air out the car. Maybe I am just confused as to how the thing works.

 

[jmn444]

It should not bind, the propeller turns as the axle goes up and down to compensate for the angles of the bars. The turning of the propeller effectively adds/subtracts length between the center pivot point and the outside rod ends thru the range of motion so that at any given ride hieght, the outside rod ends are equidistant from that center point. Binding would only occur at the point in travel at which the propeller is perfectly inline with one of the bars which would be the furthest that it could extend the length.

Keep in mind I'm just learning about this too, but that's my understanding of how it works....

 

[StreamlineGT]

I see what you are saying in this illustration. I thought the further the rear went up, the flatter the propeller was, but not the case. I think I will look further into the Griggs setup.

Judging by the reading I just did, the torque arm setup, along with the watts link, offers significantly higher travel in the rear suspension, or at least be able to ride at a lower stance.

 

[1sloGT]

Is Griggs the only company that makes a torque arm setup for the 05+? I havent been able to find one anywhere else.

 

[908ssp]

That Griggs setup looks good. The center pivot is held on both sides of the propeller. The rod ends on one side but since there are two of them they each divide the stress between them. The unit I built uses a single sided propeller support but it is much bigger 18mm of solid hi strength titanium. Either should do the job if built properly. I am not surprised the arms moved on the Fays unit. The idea that clamping all the side loads on the tube with the lever arms acting inches away from looked suspect to me. The tubes themselves are only pressed into the rear housing with a couple of small welds. The tubes themselves are known to come loose and it isn't uncommon to weld them in. On the other hand the cast iron pig is also known to to distort and putting a heavy duty rear cover on helps strengthen the big. The clutches push the sides of the pig apart with enough force to change the gear pattern. Putting a heavy duty aluminum cover on the back holds the sides together. If you're going to add weight add it where it does two jobs strengthen the pig and attaches the Watts link.
The frame of your car already has mounts made to support the panhard rod. Seems logical they built it strong enough. So using it like Griggs or Techco does again uses what is already there and not adding a huge subframe. Anyway just thought I'd leave a few thoughts on why i like the Griggs and Techco.

Here is a picture of the unit I built for myself.

 

[Vapour Trails]

I almost went into the wall in turn three at california speedway last year at 170+ because the clamp slipped.

Too bad you didn't, would have been one less troll on the board.

 

[SD07GT]

Too bad you didn't, would have been one less troll on the board.

When you grow up one day you'll put on your big boy pants ON and drive at a real track ...instead of some cones bitch !

 

[StreamlineGT]

No matter where you go, the internets is full of hate.

 

[LS1EATINPONY]

what exactly makes a griggs racing watts link better than the others? Its job is just basically to keep the rear axle centered right?

 

[foolio2k4]

griggs is the shit and i want one. But everyone is saying its useless without a torque arm. I dont want to go the length to get a torque arm.

@SD07GT, is the griggs watts link enough? torque arm is overkill for me. I just want a more planted rear without having to weld shit and modify the frame, etc. Just straight bolt on.

 

[jmn444]

My understanding is that the torque arm is the main reason griggs kicks ass.